Bread ****

[Pennywise]

Anyone got a good sourdough culture they'd like to swap for a couple of beers? I have a relo in Sydney who loves the sourdoughs and I think she's having issues with making a decent starter/culture, or she may just be unhappy with her results because she's just starting out and hasn't got the character of an older culture. Dunno, I don't know a lot about sourdoughs, I just told her I'd ask around here.

DrS, your bread pics always make me hungry :icon_drool2:

 

[seamad]

I made my starter along the lines of hugh fearnley- whittingsall ? The river cottage guy. I ran some raw wheat through my grain mill, added water and a stick of rhubatb. Would post a link but on my ereader so cant. Fred has come along well and ive given away a few bits of him. If she cant grow one herself can post one , should survive the trip.
Cheers
Sean

 

[Airgead]

Anyone got a good sourdough culture they'd like to swap for a couple of beers? I have a relo in Sydney who loves the sourdoughs and I think she's having issues with making a decent starter/culture, or she may just be unhappy with her results because she's just starting out and hasn't got the character of an older culture. Dunno, I don't know a lot about sourdoughs, I just told her I'd ask around here.

DrS, your bread pics always make me hungry :icon_drool2:

As it happens I have a bunch of leftover starter (about 17 years old) waiting to be parcelled out and given away....

Shoot me a PM with the details.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Pennywise]

Awesome, cheers guys. Airgead will shoot a PM off now.

 

[Airgead]

Awesome, cheers guys. Airgead will shoot a PM off now.

No problem. I have a bunch of starter at the moment (not eating as much bread over the holidays) so if anyone else wants a lump, let me know and I'll send some out. I've sent it through the mail before and it seems to survive pretty well. Comes with full care and feeding instructions.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Katherine]

Had another bakethon today B)

Demolished one of the tomato, garlic and basil breads for lunch, very tasty.

Wholemeal poppy seed rolls for lunches

Small ciabatta rolls

Sourdough (white/wholemeal/rye)

Tomato, garlic and basil bread from the book Dough

awesomness

 

[jakethedog]

Had another bakethon today B)

Demolished one of the tomato, garlic and basil breads for lunch, very tasty.

Wholemeal poppy seed rolls for lunches

Small ciabatta rolls

Sourdough (white/wholemeal/rye)

Tomato, garlic and basil bread from the book Dough

Looks fantastic. I am currently lunching on sourdough straight out of the oven.

Do you add extra bread yeast to the sourdough or just the starter? I can only get a decent rise with starter if I do a plain white loaf. Adding rye/wholemeal or grains weighs it down.

 

[Airgead]

Looks fantastic. I am currently lunching on sourdough straight out of the oven.

Do you add extra bread yeast to the sourdough or just the starter? I can only get a decent rise with starter if I do a plain white loaf. Adding rye/wholemeal or grains weighs it down.

I just finished a sandwich made from my grain sourdough. I do wholemeal/rye/grain sourdoughs all the time (5 loaves a week). No extra yeast, just the starter and I get a good rise even with the really heavy grain doughs.

What's your method/recipe?

Cheers
Dave

 

[drsmurto]

Adding rye and/or wholemeal etc does increase the rise time in my experience but a slow rise is part of the sourdough process.

Too fast a rise (as i discovered last year) results in a lighter loaf with less of the sourdough character. I very rarely make plain white sourdough, adding rye/wholemeal makes a much nicer yeast IMHO.

Like Airgead, i don't add any yeast. I build up the mother culture 24 hours beforehand by mixing in 1 cup of flour and 1 cup of water and allowing the mixture to sit at room temperature for 24 hours. Add more flour and water to it, knead it and continue as normal for beadmaking.

@Airgead - have you ever tried drying out your culture to be able to send it or are you sending the sarter as a thick dough? I'm interested in doing a culture swap if you are.

 

[jakethedog]

I do get a rise from only starter, just not nearly as much as when using baker's yeast.
My recipes vary depending on what book/internet site am reading and also on my time.
I have spent all day mixing/ kneading/ stetching/folding/ shaping proofing and made decent loafs and disaster pizza looking loafs. If I am short of time I do my 3-5 min loaf (1,2,3 method).
The 1,2,3 method generally produces a great loaf every time. Other methods vary in shape depending if I get the hydration right.
1,2,3 method is:
1 cup starter and 1 cup water, 2 teaspoons salt and 3 cups flour. - Mix well. This takes 2-3 mins all up.
Rest overnight.
Tip on floured surface and fold into roughly a round shape. (1-2 mins)
Bake 40 mins.

 

[drsmurto]

Jake - happy to give you some of my sourdough mother with the tips i was given when i received the mother from a colleague.

Your recipe/method looks like it is missing a step or 2 for sourdough. It's like you have taken a regular bread yeast recipe and subbed in sourdough culture which, unless you make a big starter prior, won't work (in my experience). Not having a go at you, just my thoughts - 2 cents and all that.

My method, based on discussions with several of the posters in this thread and reading of the books 'Dough' and 'Crust'.

Take sourdough mother out of fridge and tip 90% of it into a bowl.

Add 1 cup flour, 1 cup water, mix, cover and leave at room temperature for 24h. At the same time add 1-2 tbsp each of flour and water to the left over mother, leave for 2 hours at room temperature and then back in the fridge.

After 24h add 500g flour, 10g salt and water - how much depends on what flour you use but i add it in parts to the mixture and start kneading (machine). As it comes together you can ad more water or flour as required. Normally approx 250g of water (yes, i weigh out water - it's more accurate unless you have a burette). I sometimes add some olive oil to the mix (50g max) for something different.

Knead for 10-15 mins until smooth.

If in a hurry i then let it prove for 2-3 hours at room temperature but 95% of the time i will prove it in the fridge for 24-48hours.

After first proving, on a floured bench, fold it several times and form into whatever shape you desire and let prove until almost doubled in size (this step can take 3-6 hours depending on flour mix, room temperature and humidity).

Tip onto a floured peel, slash cuts int the top and slide onto a pizza stone in an oven pre-heated to 250C (normally takes at least 1 hour to reach that temperature and get the stone fully heated).

Spray/mist lots of water into the oven and then shut the door. Bake for 15 mins at 250C, turn fown to 220C and leave it another 15-20 mins depending on how dark you like your bread, i like mine very dark.

One of no doubt 100s of methods but i thought i would put it out there as I am happy with the results i am getting.

Cheers
DrSmurto - I buy my flour from Gaganis bros near Hindmarsh Stadium, ~$14 for 10kg of white flour, can't recall the cost for the rye and wholemeal flours but these are just flours, not the prepackaged bread mixes which contain all manner of additonal ingredients/chemicals.

 

[jakethedog]

Cheers Doc. It does seem like I need to rest/ferment longer and use more of my starter.
Do you think the origin of the starter makes a difference? My starter is 18 months old and just one I made myself from rye flour/white flour and water. It took 2 weeks to smell good. It had a strong acetone smell for a while but I pushed through. If the type of starter makes a difference then I might take you up on the starter offer. I work in the Adelaide Hills in Woodside.

 

[Airgead]

I do get a rise from only starter, just not nearly as much as when using baker's yeast.
My recipes vary depending on what book/internet site am reading and also on my time.
I have spent all day mixing/ kneading/ stetching/folding/ shaping proofing and made decent loafs and disaster pizza looking loafs. If I am short of time I do my 3-5 min loaf (1,2,3 method).
The 1,2,3 method generally produces a great loaf every time. Other methods vary in shape depending if I get the hydration right.
1,2,3 method is:
1 cup starter and 1 cup water, 2 teaspoons salt and 3 cups flour. - Mix well. This takes 2-3 mins all up.
Rest overnight.
Tip on floured surface and fold into roughly a round shape. (1-2 mins)
Bake 40 mins.

My Method -

* 400g Starter
* 800g baker's flour
* 650g water
* 20g salt

* Mix into a dough then kneed until smooth and elastic.
* Form into a ball and place in a floured bowl for 1 hour
* Turn out onto a floured surface, re-form into a ball and place back into floured bowl for another hour
* Turn out onto floured surface, divide in two and shape into loaves. Place on tray or in basket. Cover with a cloth and leave to rise. The rise will take anywhere between 4 and 24 hours depending on the temperature.
* Heat oven to as high as it will go.
* Slash tops of loaves and place in oven.
* Bake for 5 min then turn temp down to 220 and bake for another 20-25 mins.
* Cool and eat.

If I use wholemeal flour I usually throw in 200g bakers and 600g wholemeal and up the water to 680g. If I add grains, I add 2 cups of mixed grains and a touch of extra water.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Airgead]

@Airgead - have you ever tried drying out your culture to be able to send it or are you sending the sarter as a thick dough? I'm interested in doing a culture swap if you are.

I usually send out as a dough. Survives pretty well that way. Never tried drying it.

Happy to arrange a swap.

Cheers
Dave

 

[jakethedog]

I am getting a bit frustrated with my soughdough breadmaking. Made a loaf today if you can call it that! Fermented the starter with 1 cup water, 1 cup flour and left for 24 hrs. Added flour with a bit of rye and wholemeal. Kneaded for 15 mins. Rolled into a ball which held its shape nicely. Left for 3 hrs (28 degrees inside) whereby it doubled in size. Folded a few times and shaped into a batard with a bit more flour, again it held its shape. I put it in a large plastic container with glad wrap boxes running either side so it did not go flat. Let rise for 4 hrs
When it came to putting it on the peel it lost its shape and went very flat.
Could it be that I have over proofed? Or should I have used more flour to make the dough stiffer?

 

[Airgead]

I am getting a bit frustrated with my soughdough breadmaking. Made a loaf today if you can call it that! Fermented the starter with 1 cup water, 1 cup flour and left for 24 hrs. Added flour with a bit of rye and wholemeal. Kneaded for 15 mins. Rolled into a ball which held its shape nicely. Left for 3 hrs (28 degrees inside) whereby it doubled in size. Folded a few times and shaped into a batard with a bit more flour, again it held its shape. I put it in a large plastic container with glad wrap boxes running either side so it did not go flat. Let rise for 4 hrs
When it came to putting it on the peel it lost its shape and went very flat.
Could it be that I have over proofed? Or should I have used more flour to make the dough stiffer?

Could be over risen por under kneeded. To little kneeding or using a weak flour mreans the dough isnt strong enough to support its self and will collapse.

I's also rise longer and cooler. Sourdough is really needs a long slow rise to develop the flavours. I ruse mine for at least 10 hours in the summer and 18-24 in the winter.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Deebo]

Quick question (not technically bread.. but close enough):
What would make pizza dough break easily when stretched and not look nice and smooth?

I normaly make pizza every friday (have one of those electric pizza cookers).

Recipe I have always used
4 cups flour (use 00 flour molini flour from woolies)
1.5 cups warm water
teaspoon of sugar
packet of yeast
occasionaly a bit of olive oil and salt

Whack it in the bread maker and let it do its thing for 2 and a half hours.

Have always liked the pizza but watching youtube videos their dough seems a lot smoother and to stretch a lot more without breaking.. so wondering if theres anything I should try?
(SWMBO has a kitchenaid that I have tried using the dough hook on a couple of times but the resulting dough seems pretty much the same with a bit more work)

eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...oe_j-0gwE#t=61s if I tried this with my dough it would just break

 

[Airgead]

Quick question (not technically bread.. but close enough):
What would make pizza dough break easily when stretched and not look nice and smooth?

I normaly make pizza every friday (have one of those electric pizza cookers).

Recipe I have always used
4 cups flour (use 00 flour molini flour from woolies)
1.5 cups warm water
teaspoon of sugar
packet of yeast
occasionaly a bit of olive oil and salt

Whack it in the bread maker and let it do its thing for 2 and a half hours.

Have always liked the pizza but watching youtube videos their dough seems a lot smoother and to stretch a lot more without breaking.. so wondering if theres anything I should try?
(SWMBO has a kitchenaid that I have tried using the dough hook on a couple of times but the resulting dough seems pretty much the same with a bit more work)

eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...oe_j-0gwE#t=61s if I tried this with my dough it would just break

To get that really strong, stretchy dough you need to use a strong flour. The 00 flour we get here isn't a strong flour so it won't give you enough gluten to do the stretchy dough. Its designed for pasta not bread. There are speciality 00 flours that are strong flours (the 00 refers to the fineness of the grind) and are used for breads. Look at the protein content on the pack. You want over 12%.

use a mix of 00 and a strong bread flour. Keep your hydration at around 70% (use 70% of the weight of the flour as the weight of the water). Knead it really well then let it rest for 1/2 hour or so. Bingo. Stretchy dough.

Cheers
Dave

 

[drsmurto]

Cheers Doc. It does seem like I need to rest/ferment longer and use more of my starter.
Do you think the origin of the starter makes a difference? My starter is 18 months old and just one I made myself from rye flour/white flour and water. It took 2 weeks to smell good. It had a strong acetone smell for a while but I pushed through. If the type of starter makes a difference then I might take you up on the starter offer. I work in the Adelaide Hills in Woodside.

I drive through Woodside on my way to and from work so could meet up no problems. I live in the thriving metropolis that is Mt Torrens.

I'll build up the starter to be able to give you a decent amount of it.

Acetone is not a great sign (suspect it's more likely to be ethyl acetate (nail polish remover) you are smelling). It suggests to me you have more acetobacter than lactobacillus in your starter. Lacto is what you want for the sour tang. Aceto is what turns wine into vinegar (which i also do )

 

[Deebo]

To get that really strong, stretchy dough you need to use a strong flour. The 00 flour we get here isn't a strong flour so it won't give you enough gluten to do the stretchy dough. Its designed for pasta not bread. There are speciality 00 flours that are strong flours (the 00 refers to the fineness of the grind) and are used for breads. Look at the protein content on the pack. You want over 12%.

use a mix of 00 and a strong bread flour. Keep your hydration at around 70% (use 70% of the weight of the flour as the weight of the water). Knead it really well then let it rest for 1/2 hour or so. Bingo. Stretchy dough.

Cheers
Dave

Thanks for the tips Dave, will take a look around for some flours with higher protein and give that a shot (not sure what % that molini flour was as I chucked out the packet).