Braumeister step mashes?

[QldKev]

Okay, back to the OT. So now we have two contenders:


Mash suggestion A:

TEMP: 55 / 65 / 72 / 77
TIME: 5 / 40 / 25 / 10


Mash suggestion B:

TEMP: 50 / 62 / 68 / 72 / 74
TIME: 5 / 10 / 45 / 20 / 20


I liked the hochkurtz suggestion, but will have to save that for a lighter ale or wheat. The mash suggestion B is closer to what I had originally proposed in that it favors the formation of unfermentable sugars to get a bigger body. Anybody favor one or the other?

Ref last response for Mash suggestion A. It's the one I suggested so it's my pick based on what you have asked for.

Mash Suggestion B
Seems just like someones thrown some random numbers on the table and is over-complicating things. While it would produce beer, that is in character for what you want it doesn;t specifically target Beta and Alpha amylase.
Step 1 50 vs 55. Both will work but protein rests of 50 Vs 52 Vs 55 is a discussion in itself. I have experimented and with well modified malts I use 55c.
Step 2, 10 mins at 62c will kick of a good hit of Beta amylase conversion, but it's not that long to get the bulk of work done.
Step 3. will convert the bulk of the starch at this step favoring Alpha so a thick beer that would favor an English mild style, but it's just not APA grounds anymore.
Step 4. 72 is pure Alpha so thickening it up even more.
Step 5. 74. WTF even more Alpha targeting? why is this step doing that the 72 didn't. Why not just extend 72?
Why is there no mash out at 77/78c ?
The body of the beer this would produce would not normally suit an APA.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Thats was me QLDKev, I suggested that I sometimes skip the 72c and 78c mashout and shoot straight from 68c to 74c rest.

mash at 68c/45mins, 72c/20mins and then mashout at 78c for 15mins would get a good full body beer.

unreal that someone has started a brewery without before brewing beer.... :huh:

OP now has a new job - head brewer, best of luck with it.

 

[minimalizarte]

Thanks you guys. These posts are really helpful.

Like I said before, I understand what each rest does, but obviously there are slight differences between the available mash steps out there. The extra info behind those changes will help me identify the subtleties in the beer. You guys have been great!

And let me say this: these guys arent the only ones in the area to open up a brewery without knowing how to brew. I met a couple who has never made a batch in their lives who is going to try their hand at lager. They told me that beer only takes 3 days to ferment. We had a long talk, but they left feeling pretty sure that it takes 2 to 3 days to ferment a lager.

 

[QldKev]

Thats was me QLDKev, I suggested that I sometimes skip the 72c and 78c mashout and shoot straight from 68c to 74c rest.

mash at 68c/45mins, 72c/20mins and then mashout at 78c for 15mins would get a good full body beer.

unreal that someone has started a brewery without before brewing beer.... :huh:

OP now has a new job - head brewer, best of luck with it.

I put my foot in that one. :huh:


To the OP, if you get a change try both mash schedules out. You may prefer the full on high temp mash as proposed by Pratty1. At the end of the day, it's all brewing and personal preference from here.

 

[minimalizarte]

Thanks QldKev. I will probably try both out. If you've ever had Spanish beer, and especially Spanish craft beer, you'll know how disappointing it can be. Since I'm from San Francisco, I've had the luxury of drinking Anchor all my life. Hopefully I'll be able to bring something good to the table.

 

[manticle]

I sit somewhere between Kev and pratty.

If you want more body in the beer then shorten the rest in the low 60s to 10-15 mins, then bump to 68 for 45 then hit 72 for 10. A 40 minute rest in the low 60s won't leave much starch to get turned into dextrins - they don't reform from shorter chain sugars even if the temperature is right.

72 is not only alpha-amylase, it also favours the formation of glycoproteins which aid head retention. A short (5 minute) rest at 55 and a 10 minute rest at 72 work well to create a tight, well formed, stable head.

So my vote would be TEMP: 55/62/68/72/78
TIME: 5/10/45/10/10

Alternatively 62 for 15, 70 for 50 then 78 for 10 if you think it's too complex (although it sounds as if programming the brau is pretty simple)

Definitely no need to go from 72 -74.

 

[squirt in the turns]

Coming back to Pratty's scan of the Ultimate Almanac table (great resource, BTW, thanks!), what exactly is "gum" and what does beta-glucanase convert it to?

 

[QldKev]

Probably getting a little bit off topic...

Can the Brau system be set to have a slow ramp rate? It's something I'm going to play with once I finish my control panel build as I will be including a ramp pid.

So the idea say for a beer style as above

55 for 5min
Ramp to 62
62 for 15min
Ramp from 62 to 72 over 30 mins. * So you are getting about 3 minutes at each step temp, we could even try 40mins to slow it a bit more
72 for 15min
Ramp to Mash out etc..

Looking at the schedule it may be a bit thinner than the OP wants, but the idea is bulk of the conversion is on the fly.

 

[Florian]

Probably getting a little bit off topic...

Can the Brau system be set to have a slow ramp rate? It's something I'm going to play with once I finish my control panel build as I will be including a ramp pid.

So the idea say for a beer style as above

55 for 5min
Ramp to 62
62 for 15min
Ramp from 62 to 72 over 30 mins. * So you are getting about 3 minutes at each step temp, we could even try 40mins to slow it a bit more
72 for 15min
Ramp to Mash out etc..

Looking at the schedule it may be a bit thinner than the OP wants, but the idea is bulk of the conversion is on the fly.

no, unfortunately it hasn't, I always wished it gave more freedom in programming.

It has five steps max, that's it. No going backwards in temps either, which means you can't set your strike temp above rest temp.

An optional fifty steps would be great, although probably way more than needed by most.

 

[verysupple]

Pratty, one thing is knowing what they do and another is learning from experience. Books can only tell you so much; I know the theory behind the temperatures but have yet to experience the differences in taste and body with this specific machine. With my other kettles I originally started out doing step mashes before and switched to single step infusions mainly because they saved time and the quality was consistently good.

I have met plenty of people who use BMs and do a three step infusion (55, 68, 78). Other people I know tell me that the temps aren't an issue with the BM, that whatever the guide says is good enough. I disagree simply because the taste doesn't correspond with my experience, the temperatures don't really match with my experiences, and I was looking to compliment the existing guidelines with a step that could enhance the body. If other people have different advice, I'm glad to hear it and willing to try it out so that I can learn from the experience.

Telling me that I'm out of my depth when I'm using a machine that dummies could brew beer with - simply because I want to learn the technical differences between a step at 68 degrees for 40 minutes and a different one at 72 degrees for 25 minutes - doesn't exactly help. I appreciate the honesty of your opinion, but what I want to know pertains to a technical detail which isn't available in the dozens of brewing books I have gone through.

If you're so intent on learning from experience instead of books (which were written based on other people's experiences ), why don't you just try both schedules and learn from the experience?

 

[manticle]

Presumably because the batch size is so large.

Minimalartze - this does raise a good point. It might be worthwhile getting your friends to invest in a 20 or 50 L so you can brew pilot batches. It will save them cash in the long run.

 

[bum]

Whereas employing a brewer might make them cash in the long run.

 

[manticle]

That's step 2.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

no, unfortunately it hasn't, I always wished it gave more freedom in programming.

It has five steps max, that's it. No going backwards in temps either, which means you can't set your strike temp above rest temp.

An optional fifty steps would be great, although probably way more than needed by most.

It smacks of effort, but there's no reason you couldn't mash in manual mode to achieve this.

 

[minimalizarte]

@Bum HA, if only there were decent brewers in Spain. Plus money is a factor.

@Manticle & verysupple I have a kettle at home for these purposes, but we dont have a lot of time to throw this all together. We need a beer for july. For other recipes, I will do prototypes first. But in this case it's crash course brewing.

 

[minimalizarte]

Also wanted to know your opinion about this: these guys - the last time they brewed with their brewing "consultant" (who since has been fired) - got a brewhouse efficiency of 63 percent for an APA... I tried the beer and it really didnt have much body to it at all. The beer itself used 44 kilos of malt and 175 liters went into the fermenters with a reading of 1.047... Correct me if I am wrong, but this is an abysmal efficiency right?