Braumeister - Continuous temp rise mashing

[Goose]

The Belgian purists use dextrose and white sugar to dry out a high abv beer, and would never use DME. The sugar has a purpose, other than economy in some beers.

That is a very valid comment.... however I thought they only used candi sugar.... Fair point..

 

[mje1980]

They do, and dark candi syrup, mmmmm drool. But I'll bet at least some use plain old dextrose. I think it's BLAM that the duvel recipe states 17% dextrose.

 

[DeGarre]

Belgians would use any sugar they have available to lighten up the mouthfeel. 8% beer with only malt and no sugar is not "digestible" ie has not enough drinkability for Belgians.

 

[dicko]

Have read a few historical threads along these lines, but none relating to the BM, just a RIMS system. Anyway, from memory the BM raises temp about 1 deg C per minute, and maybe a bit slower with malt in the pipe. So given that, has anyone mashed in and either had a protein rest at 50 ish then just set the next step temp to say 72 deg C or even mash out? [/size]
Given that at a 1 deg C per min. rise in temp there is a fair bit of time in the B amylase zone for conversion of fermentables, and maybe stopping at 72 Deg C for a time to ensure full conversion would be appropriate, I wonder how this would work.[/size]
I was just thinking that while time for us home brewers is not an issue, compared with commercial breweries, we can sometimes forget, especially with a BM, that it takes time to do temp rises and conversion still takes place during temp rises.[/size]
I remember talking to the lads from Bluetongue Brewery and they said they just continually raised the mash temp to 70 then up to mash out. At the time I did not quiz them anymore as I never had a heatable mash tun, but it has me thinking now.[/size]

To get back on topic, I would be very interested in your results SJW, if you could post some comments when the beer is done.

 

[SJW]

Well the drew day went great. I hit 1.065 (close enough to 1.066). I set the BM off at 11pm with 27 litres of cold water for 245min @ 10 deg, 30min @ 50 deg C, 60min @ 70 deg C, 30min @ 76 deg C. So one of the kids or the Mrs pressed the quite button in the morning while I was getting my beauty sleep, and watching the Soccaroors get smacked. Lifted the pipe, sparged with 8 litres 75 deg C water and boiled.
Hop additions were at 20min, 10min @ whilpool for 10 min then I started cooling. Cooled to 30 deg C with imersion chiller and the pump running. let it settle and drained into my new S/S olive Oil drum.
Pitched 200mls of thick white creamy 1052 slurry @ 20 deg C and 6 hours later she was going nuts.(Piobably over pitched). I dont like it when it goes off so fast. I generally find better results when there is 12 hours before it kicks off. Anyway I will report on where the F.G. ends up at. As this is the big question.
Does Beta Amylase convert enough fermetables at the speed the BM heats up to 70 Deg C, and while mashing at 70 Deg C for that matter.
I suspect it will be fine. Reaseaching this has indicated that Beta Amylase does its thing very fast and even faster as the temp rises befre it is denatured.
I will put my money on at ..............................1.012 terminal gravity. Thats about 80% apparent attenuation.

Steve

 

[manticle]

I have short rests in the low 60s, followed by high 60s for longer and never fail to hit terminal gravity. Sounds like you would have taken 20 minutes to rise from 50 to 70 and beta would be quite active in the high 50s and isn't destroyed until around 75 depending on who you read. Alpha also acts very quickly and would be doing its thing around the mid 60s, destroyed around 80. I'd be confident you'll hit FG although I'd be interested to know what the 30 mins at 50 results in head and body wise. Was it 30 at 50 then rise to to sacch? That's a lot of time in the low 50s. I prefer quick and short in that regard.

Not using a BM and my temps rise a lot more quickly than a degree a minute but the principles are the same.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

I did a mild on Friday, and did a free rise from 37 to 68 for 45 then 70 for 20. It's just normally how I do things - often just to get more done on other stuff during the mash.

Then I read this thread, which made me question that approach.

Three days in and it was around 1.015, lower than my 2013 mild - I feel like id have done the free rise then, too, but hard to say.

I'm interested in seeing where it ends and if low g/low body is an issue.

 

[manticle]

Any reason for 37 mash in for mild? I just go 70 for 30 with mine.

 

[SJW]

I have short rests in the low 60s, followed by high 60s for longer and never fail to hit terminal gravity. Sounds like you would have taken 20 minutes to rise from 50 to 70 and beta would be quite active in the high 50s and isn't destroyed until around 75 depending on who you read. Alpha also acts very quickly and would be doing its thing around the mid 60s, destroyed around 80. I'd be confident you'll hit FG although I'd be interested to know what the 30 mins at 50 results in head and body wise. Was it 30 at 50 then rise to to sacch? That's a lot of time in the low 50s. I prefer quick and short in that regard.

Not using a BM and my temps rise a lot more qquickly than a degree a minute but the principles are the same.

Good question there mate. I have done dozens and dozens of continuous brews with a 10 min rest at 54, as it was the best I could come up with from what I had read and the malt we use. The 30 at 50 Deg C thing is just more of a test to see what happends, and because I mash over night I need/like to draw things out as long as possible till morning. I think it came up after reading commercial brewing mash shedules. Anyway, we will see how it goes.

Steve

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Any reason for 37 mash in for mild? I just go 70 for 30 with mine.

Not any mash chemistry justifiable one, no.

 

[Bribie G]

Alpha is a rottweiler. When I do cereal mashes and stir in a kilo of a highly diastatic malt such as Barrett Burston into the thick rice or maize "porridge" at 72 degrees, it all turns into a thin soup within about ten stirs of the mixing paddle.

re the sugar: many traditional styles, not just Belgians, use a bit of sugar, particularly some historical UK styles. Wells Bombardier uses heaps and heaps of it according to their own brewer. I use it in Coopers Sparkling tributes as I believe they use around 10% .

 

[SJW]

OK Its only been 6 days, and I am at low krausen now, so with US-05 slurry it will be pretty close to being finished. I took a hydro sample last night and .................... shite, 1.020. So from 1.060 to 1.016 would be about the min attenuation for US-05. I am not sure I will get there but will wait a few days. It has been cold and the new S/S fermenter has been keeping the wort at 17 deg C.
Will post FG in a few days.
So maybe it will need a 5 or 10 min rest at 60 deg C after all.

Steve

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hi Steve,

Id go ahead and raise the temp of the femnter to 19-20c to complete the ferment if you can?

I often pitch my ales at 17c, raise to 18c during the lag period and after 48hrs of fermentation increase the temp 1c every 24hrs stopping at 21c. I found that it keeps the yeast active and knowing that most if not all flavours are made in the first 36-48hrs increasing the temp in small 1c increments wont cause any other flavours and more chance that you get full attenuation.

 

[SJW]

Thanks Pratty, I'll warm it up tonight

 

[SJW]

OK the results are in. Mashed it at 10 deg C, 30 min @ 50 deg C, then 60 min at 70 deg C, then 30 min @ 76 deg C.
O.G. - 1.065
F.G. - 1.012

The late whirlpool hopping was good. Nice and bitter with heaps of flavour. The big surprise was the head on the beer. Even only after 2 days in the keg the head formation was sensational. See photo. Its stayed like that all the way to the end. So much for mashing at 50 deg C will destroy the head.
The excercise was to see if enough Beta got converted during the slow BM rise to 70 deg C. I guess it did.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

What was the style? My porter and mild that went through a low mash in to the high temp are both feeling a bit unremarkably thin.

 

[SJW]

A big American IPA