Bottle Storage Temps

[manticle]

I've got a bottled brew that I'm tweaking to become my house ale (or one thereof).

It's been bottled a couple of weeks. I opened two bottles tonight and both gushed. Taste is as it should be and the carbonation level is fine (I tend towards the low/mid regions for most beers - 2.2 - 2.4).

My theory is that because I store the beers in my shed and it's been reasonably warm recently, that the gushing is due to that. I often drink my ales at warmer temps and there's no way I can keep several crates worth of different ales at a particular temp. Should I be refrigerating then leaving out of the fridge to bring up to my preferred temp? Am I on the right track?

The beer is also cloudy when previous attempts have been very clear. It was both fined and cold conditioned. I have a stack of other bottles in the shed and don't want all of them to be gushing as the weather warms up. Anybody got tips for keeping large volumes of bottled beer at reasonable temps?

Cheers.

 

[rackemup]

although the reasons behind gushing beer are not completely known, the general consensus is that it is due to an infection (Fusarium,Aspergillus and Penicillium) and not temperature. I have stored large batches of beer in higher than ideal temps and never had any gushers so i would be very surprised if this was the cause.

 

[bum]

I dunno, Rack'EmUp. I'm no science-talking-guy but my personal observations (related to a small degree here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...howtopic=38795) lead me suspect that there are handling issues which can cause gushers.

I do note an obvious difference between the gushers I'm referring to in the linked thread and the ones manticle describes. As far as I am concerned there is no way one could miss the taste I find in the gushers I noted.

Manticle, I can't see how keeping them as cool as you can manage (read - not cold) can hurt regardless of serving temp. Knowingly keeping them hot surely can't be doing your beers any favours.

[EDIT: I edited]

 

[rackemup]

There are literally hundreds of reasons behind gushing beers, i was simply pointing out the obvious ones. with the information supplied it could be anything

 

[Mr.Moonshine]

If there's little bits and bots in the bottle (Like hop particles), then the CO2 tries to cling to it, which can cause gushers I beleive. I had a batch of pilsner which was not infected and not overcarbed, but gushed when I opened it.
Also, if the carbonation level is high and the beer is served warm, then less CO2 is able to be held in the solution, so it might fizz because of that.

Good luck,

Mr.Moonshine

 

[t2000kw]

If they're gushing today they might be bursting next month. Watch out!!! My brother had some bottle bombs and he had to open all of the bottles and re-ferment the beer a bit, then re-bottle. Got cut a bit in the process when a few broke while he was opening them. He did the opening behind some plywood to protect his body.

This eventually happens to my meads. Never did to any of my beers, though. When this happens, I make it by "brew of choice" and drink that exclusively until it's gone in a week or two. I monitor the foaming over time by opening a bottle every couple of weeks. When it starts crawling out of the bottle, that's when I switch to make it my brew of choice and drink it up more quickly. If it's really gushing hard, I would either drink it up quickly or get rid of it before you get hurt.

Donald

 

[rude]

I had a gusher 5 brews ago one out of 50 500ml botts

I put it down to slack cleaning of the bottle it smelt & tasted ok though

 

[manticle]

Unless bottle bombs can come from things other than overcarb or infection (as neither is the case here), I feel fairly safe. I get high gravity commercial trappists and abbey ales from my local which gush like this so there must be other causes.

Question is - how do I keep several milk crates worth of conditioning beer at temps under 20 degrees?

 

[Tyred]

Unless bottle bombs can come from things other than overcarb or infection (as neither is the case here), I feel fairly safe. I get high gravity commercial trappists and abbey ales from my local which gush like this so there must be other causes.

Question is - how do I keep several milk crates worth of conditioning beer at temps under 20 degrees?

You could try big plastic bins half filled with water. Bung a couple of frozen 3/4 filled PET bottles in each morning. It will keep the temperature down a bit during the day.

 

[rackemup]

Unless bottle bombs can come from things other than overcarb or infection (as neither is the case here), I feel fairly safe. I get high gravity commercial trappists and abbey ales from my local which gush like this so there must be other causes.

Question is - how do I keep several milk crates worth of conditioning beer at temps under 20 degrees?

Manticle - unless you have a cellar (which im assuming you don't) or can control the weather (which im assuming you can't) just buy yourself a big ol fridge with some kind of temp control if you feel it's necessary and condition your beer in there. unless you feel like swapping around frozen pet bottles everyday for however long you plan on conditioning your beers for (months?) not sure about you but that sounds like a major pita. might only need it for half the year depending on where you live

Primary gushing, resulting from the use of mold infected malt, is caused by the presence of high numbers of Type III micro-bubbles. These stabilized bubbles are believed to be the nucleation sites responsible for violent CO2 release and gushing. They consist of surface active materials forming a solid-condensed pellicle around CO2 gas, effectively insulating the CO2 from the bulk of the liquid. It is speculated the surface active material is a protein, produced as either a mold metabolite, or an atypical malt constituent induced by an interaction between mold and barley during malting. Agitation is an essential prerequisite for the formation of primary gushing and symptoms can be temporarily cured or masked by repasteurization or chilling, or aggravated by various other processing parameters (e.g., the use of foam enhancing hop extracts, overcarbonation, etc.). Prevention is only assured by the avoidance of weathered barley and malt. Secondary gushing is unrelated to malt issues and is caused by Type I (solid particles) or Type II (gas residues sorbed on a solid support) particles acting as nuclei. Typically these result from contamination of packaging materials with foreign particulate matter, filtration breakthroughs, abnormal haze development during beer aging, etc. Normally primary gushing involves the majority of packaged beer from specific lots while secondary gushing is more sporadic in occurrence.

your beer doesn't have to be 'infected' for you to get gushers, it can come from using infected barley malt (if this is the cause)

 

[MHB]

The incidence of the much reported Gusher Bug is these days extremely rare, it would only apply to mash brewers, then only to those with extremely poor brewery hygiene.

Much more likely is bottling too soon or over conditioning.

Yes there are other causes but in reality bottling too soon and too heavy a hand with the sugar spoon are much more likely to be the answer.

MHB

 

[buttersd70]

One factor that may be contributing to things is something youve already considered:

Should I be refrigerating then leaving out of the fridge to bring up to my preferred temp? Am I on the right track?

Consider this, for the moment.....all the following questions are rhetorical.

Lets say ambient is 25C. Lets also say that you want your beer served at 8c. And lets assume that your fridge is set to 4c (iirc most food fridges are 2-4C).

You put the bottle from ambient in the fridge, and wait enough time for it to drop by 17c to 8c, then take it out and open it.....Is the beer temperature stable at 8c, both the glass, and the beer itself? or is the glass coldest, the beer that's closest to the glass cold, and the beer in the centre warmer? In summary, is there not a range of temperatures within the vessel, and the liquid? and, if the temperature throughout a liquid medium is not stable, does it not cause....convection currents? Which would also cause rousing of the sediment, which in turn would cause nucleation points for the co2....and wouldn't it also follow that the portion of the beer that is warmest would try to release co2 at a faster rate than the portion that is cold, and that as it releases co2 from the warmer portion of the beer, would that not cause turbulence that would cause the colder beer to also release its co2 at a faster rate?....

The temp within the bottle would be most even if left in the fridge long enough to fully stabalise at 4C, then the bottle is opened as soon as it comes out the fridge.

The temp within the bottle would be more even if left in the fridge long enough to stabalise at 4C, and is then allowed to come back up just a few degrees when compared with a bottle that is chilled from ambient and then pulled out of the fridge when just cold enough.

That being said, it may be that this is a contributing factor only, and the root cause of the issue could be bottling early/overpriming/infection, etc. But an easy experiment is to put 2 bottles in the fridge overnight....then open one, straight out of the fridge. Then open the other, after leaving on the bench for ~5 mins to come up slightly. Compare any gushing in these two to the ones that are refridgerated then pulled out when 'about right'.

 

[manticle]

Final gravity was 1012 and stable over three days. I usually leave my brews for several days (sometimes a week) after FG and then cold condition so I'm pretty sure it's not early bottling. I bulk prime and as mentioned the brews themselves are not overly fizzy and if it's an infection then it tastes like amarillo.

Interesting about the mouldy malt. Is it a visible mould rack'em up? I'm assuming it comes from allowing contact with moisture? The base malt this beer was made from was ordered specifically for the brew and only stored for a very short amount of time before use. The spec malts are generally kept in plastic bags tied tightly with string, air squeezed out and inside a closed cardboard box. The exception to that is the biscuit malt which features in this brew as I bought a large bag during a bulk buy. Any specific signs of mould infection?

Also good idea about the bins. I have no more room for a third fridge although when not cc'ing a brew I guess I could keep a couple of crates worth in that fridge during summer.

I've got a couple in the fridge at the moment so I'll try Butters' idea and see how it goes.

 

[t2000kw]

Unless bottle bombs can come from things other than overcarb or infection (as neither is the case here), I feel fairly safe. I get high gravity commercial trappists and abbey ales from my local which gush like this so there must be other causes.

Question is - how do I keep several milk crates worth of conditioning beer at temps under 20 degrees?

You can get gushers if the wort contains fermentables that don't ferment quickly. It's not likely in most beers, but it is possible in a mead, at least in my experience. I always let it sit after racking for about a year in a secondary fermenter before bottling and I do use yeast nutrient and energizer when I start fermentation.

As for keeping a lot of bottles cold, if you can get hold of an old freezer (or have a spare one), you can use an outboard temperature controller like those made by Johnson Controls or Ranco to control the temperature at higher than regular freezer temperatures.

You can also tinker with the original thermostat to make it work at a higher range, but don't do that if you're not comfortable working with electricity. I would recommend using an outboard controller instead.

You can use the freezer in the future for cold storage of your beers, fermentation of lagers, even to hold kegs of your beers if you get into doing that.


Don

 

[rackemup]

Final gravity was 1012 and stable over three days. I usually leave my brews for several days (sometimes a week) after FG and then cold condition so I'm pretty sure it's not early bottling. I bulk prime and as mentioned the brews themselves are not overly fizzy and if it's an infection then it tastes like amarillo.

Interesting about the mouldy malt. Is it a visible mould rack'em up? I'm assuming it comes from allowing contact with moisture? The base malt this beer was made from was ordered specifically for the brew and only stored for a very short amount of time before use. The spec malts are generally kept in plastic bags tied tightly with string, air squeezed out and inside a closed cardboard box. The exception to that is the biscuit malt which features in this brew as I bought a large bag during a bulk buy. Any specific signs of mould infection?

I recently made a wheat beer that every bottle was a gusher, made it at normal temps, stored at 15-18c and all were gushers but it didnt taste off, and its matured nicely too so it leads me to think it has to be something outside of what ive done that has caused this gushing. the barley malt becomes infected with fusarium while still growing in the field but it can also happen during storage if there is high humidity or moisture present. im not saying this is it, just one possibility to explain why gushers happen to different beers at different temps to different people

 

[Wisey]

I would have thought the kilning and mashing/boiling process would kill any bacteria ?

 

[Nick JD]

My bottles carbed to 2.5 volumes simply can't be opened over 10 degrees C without some level of sediment lifting and monster head that fills the jug before the bottle's empty.

At 15 degrees + they are unpourable.

At 4-6 degrees (after 24 hours) they pour like sleeping kittens.

A high carbed commercial beer poured at 15 degrees can often gush too.

 

[manticle]

Thanks Nick. I'm pretty sure this is all it is. One bottle yesterday chilled for 5 hours gushed less. The one chilled for 12+ opened without a murmur. I have 3 that have been chilling since yesterday morning that are going to a family lunch. They will be the teller.

 

[beersom]

I would have thought the kilning and mashing/boiling process would kill any bacteria ?

It pretty much does ... there are however spores from some organisms that can apparently survive this.

 

[Nick JD]

It's interesting to get a thermometer and leave it at various places around the fridge. My little beer fridge has a range between 1 degree C (just under the ice cube compartment) and about 8C at the top of the door.

So megaswill always goes right under the freezer, chilled to 2 degrees and is crisp and tasteless just like it should be. But I chill my fruity ales at the bottom to 3 or 4 degrees, decant them off into PET, cap and leave in the fridge door. They remain sufficiently carbed for 36 hours, have no sediment and are like goldilock's third try at the porridge.