Book(s) on Belgian Ales

[Lochem]

does anyone know of a good book(s) to recommend for learning about Belgian Ales? Particularly strong ales, abbey ales, etc.

i found this online and was just curious if anyone has read it/ can recommend something similar etc

http://www.bookworld.com.au/book/belgian-ale/1681851/

 

[gap]

Look for "Brew like a Monk" or something like it.

 

[MHB]

The "Classic Series" are all good if somewhat dated, personally I think if you buy "Brew Like a Monk" you should tear it in half ant throw away the back of the book.
The first half is great, interviews with monks, tours of the breweries and enough information to help you make really good Abby style beer, the second half is how an American fucks it completely.
Most of the really great Belgian beers are remarkably simple very well brewed beers, until Stan Hieronymus gets to them then they need 12 ingredients and 24 process steps - totally misses the point and don't get me started on his Wheat book.
But hey that's just my opinion I'm sure lots of people will disagree.
Mark

 

[Lochem]

hey Mark -

first, i appreciate your straight up honesty in your opinion. its very helpful especially for a guy like me just starting out.

second: i REALLY love the Belgian strong ales. Two of my all-time favourite beers are La Guillotine and Delerium Tremens. One main reason i have not yet jumped into brewing clones of these yet is exactly what you described; every recipe i've seen has appeared quite complex and full of ingredients i don't know how to use.

you say they can be more 'simple' - care to elaborate?

cheers,
Lochem

 

[manticle]

Wasn't it US brewers rather than Stan that came up with those recipes Mark? I agree that I find them out of kilter with the simplicity stressed in the earlier part of the book by most of the Belgian brewers.

Never read wheat but I reckon Brew like a Monk is the book - the first half as Mark says is the golden part - discussions with abbey and trappist brewers, important stats (OG/FG, IBU) for all beers mentioned plus an idea of grist, sugar percentage and hopping for slected beers.

I was disappointed with the classic series 'Belgian ale' although I like many others in the series.

Farmhouse ales is also good for saisons, biere de garde, etc and wild brews has some decent stuff if you're into sours. Classic styles has one called 'lambic' but as far as I know it is out of print and hideously expensive.

Been a while since I looked at any of these but I based my attempts at Belgian dark and Belgian Strong on figures and tips from BLAM (duvel and rochefort 10)

 

[manticle]

Lodan - according to most Belgian brewers the complexity comes from the yeast with most grists (tripel karmeleit is a notable exception) being one or two malts plus sugar for extra abv without being overly thick. Candy sugar of various grades for colour and complexity. They are hard to nail - you need to treat the yeast right.

 

[Lochem]

thanks for the insight manticle; ill keep it all in mind.

brew like a monk does seem more informative.

do most HBS have these extra ingredients like candy sugars?

 

[MHB]

If you want some really good Belgian recipes try these at Candi Syrup, Inc., unfortunately they are all in pounds, shillings and pence and will need translating into a rational system, but its about the best collection of free Belgian recipes I know of.
Mark

 

[Lochem]

thanks Mark that's a great link.

can you tell me which from the list below you recommend that would be most similar to the styles i mentioned? (Delerium Tremens or La Guillotine)



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[clone] Vicaris Tripel Gueuze
[clone] Saison Dupont*
[clone] DeuS (Brut Des Flandres)
[clone] Noir De Dottignies
[clone] Westvleteren 12 (Single Malt)*[clone] Rodenbach Caractère Rouge



2014 PIPELINE cont.
[clone] Cantillon Fou' Foune
[clone] Duvel Tripel Hop
[clone] De Ranke XX Bitter
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Rye Saison*

 

[MHB]

I don't know the guillotine but the St. Bernardus Abt 12 clone, is an absolute cracker and the golden dragon isn't half bad their both dark so maybe not.
But this one on home brew talk works well, again do the translation.
Mark

 

[lael]

The Pious New World Westy 12 clone is also a cracker (the development thread is on hbtalk) - I've got a batch that has been aging about 6 months - just started tasting good about a month ago - was muddy and muted before that. Now - delicious. smoothest 12%appx beer I've had (yeah... big call!).

Lochem - DT is why I got into brewing. If you are doing AG here is part of the research I did on how to make it (on internet). I have more notes - but this section of them is the best. The key is culturing the yeast from the bottles. The recipe otherwise is simple. People say to use dingemanns (belgian) compared to weyermann. I'm not sure how much difference it would make - someone else might be able to comment. I made it using extract pre AG, and it was still very very good. Need to make a batch AG soon!




northernbrewer.com recipe: http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22572&hilit=delirium+tremens&start=15

N8's recipe: - this seems to be the AG ppl refer to as the best...
I did a little search for ya. Some Dutch brewers got first hand information about the malt & yeast used. The brewmaster wouldn't tell which hops he uses.

Here's a small translation of what i found:

85% pilsnermalt
15% Kristalsugar (=beetsugar, or i guess any tablesugar will do)
OG 1.071

Coriander (12g/5gal) 10 minutes, Ginger (4g/5gal) 10 minutes & seeds of Paradise (4g/5gal) 10 minutes.

Mash in 125F, 45min at 144F, 30min at 158F, mashout 172F

Yeast: Wyeast strong ale & safale04. Yes really. They didn't mention when what yeast is used, however some of the people doing the tour interpreted the brewmaster as saying both yeasts are used simultaniously. When gravity reaches 1.030, the brewery takes the yeast from the conical fermentor and puts it back in from the top. Funny procedure.... Perhaps because of the yeasts settling out?

If u recultured the yeast, this probably is a mixture of 2 yeasts. Which is no problem of course.

Hops 22 ibu.

Suggestion are to use one of the following hopping combinations:
A) Perle & Fuggles
B) Styrian Goldings & Saaz.

--------------------------------------------------------
JoeF's recipe:
A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-B Strong Belgian Ale, Tripel

Min OG: 1.065 Max OG: 1.095
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 6 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.25
Anticipated OG: 1.074 Plato: 18.01
Anticipated SRM: 4.1
Anticipated IBU: 23.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.47 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.063 SG 15.45 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.9 0.25 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2
1.9 0.25 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
83.0 11.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
13.2 1.75 lbs. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.25 oz. Styrian Goldings Whole 5.25 23.8 60 min.
0.50 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.50 0.0 0 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.40 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 10 Min.(boil)
0.17 Oz Ginger Root Spice 10 Min.(boil)
0.13 Oz Grains of Paradise Spice 0 Days(boil)


Yeast
-----




Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: DT Mash Sched

Total Grain Lbs: 11.50
Total Water Qts: 11.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 2.75 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 75.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein Rest 5 15 125 124 Infuse 135 11.00 0.96135 11.00 0.96
Beta Rest 5 30 125 143 Infuse 210 0.16 0.97
Alpha rest 5 30 144 157 Infuse 210 0.20 0.99


Total Water Qts: 11.36 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 2.84 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 3.76 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Notes
-----

Yeast: Recultured from a bottle of Delirium Tremens.

***Note: The infusion amounts(after initial dough in) are incorrect(I don't know why). I just added boiling water until I hit 144F and 158F respectively.

GOP: last 10 minutes of boil

OG: 1.070 (I usually boil 90 minutes and yield came out to more than 0.5 gallon left over.)

***Corriander, ginger, GOP smell wonderful**************

Only time will tell.......

notes from p8 of forum: Is this the definitive recipe?
JoeF answer: No. I'd go by the 85%pils and 15% cane sugar and leave the wheat and aromatic out. Also, I calc'd one of the spice additions incorrectly - refer to N8's original post on the quantities. I can't remember which one I calc'd wrong. Sorry. Nevertheless, my original try still resulted in a very tasty beer - though I will say I really f'd it up by filtering half of it. Next time, I'm going to bottle condition.

BTW, I'd dough in at 131F for the first step.
--------------------------
notes before the recipe:

My starter is going like mad. What qty's on the GOP and coriander? Both added 5 minutes before flameout? I tasted my starter, besides tasting some gross yeast nutrient, it tasted remarkably like DT! Most of the flavor has to come from this yeast(of course) and it's been at room temp(75F). I'm going to try fermenting at 70 to 75F. Any other thoughts on the grain bill besides Pils and aromatic? What's you're best guess at the hops used? (p3)

BrewManMAtt, you've got the right idea...make a very small (no more than a pint) starter of a low gravity wort(maybe 1.020-1.035). Carefully decant a bottle of beer into your glass, leaving about the last 1/2 inch behind. POur that into your cooled, sanitized starter. Step it up a few times before brewing. (p4)

!!! Don't Filter! before bottling
-----------------------
N8 - p6:
Actually, i'm brewing this version:

85% pilsnermalt
15% Kristalsugar (=beetsugar, or i guess any tablesugar will do)
OG 1.071

Coriander (12g/5gal) 10 minutes, Ginger (4g/5gal) 10 minutes & seeds of Paradise (4g/5gal) 10 minutes.

Mash in 125F, 45min at 144F, 30min at 158F, mashout 172F

with Styrian Goldings and Saaz hops.

I finally got around to brewing the DT. I used 85% Castle Pils malt and about 15% sugar. Saaz hops for bittering and Styrian Golding for finishing to come to about 30IBUs.
When I pitched the yeast I had activity within an hour. This morning the blow off tubes in the bottles of water were really whirring. This DT yeast is really voitile. Never seen a more active Belgian yeast.
Oh, added ginger, coriander, and Paradise seed. The aromas it gave were incredible.
Did 10 gals. Really lookin forward to diving into this one.
------------------------------
Denny: p6:
Brewed my DT yesterday. Hit the OG dead on. 85% pils, 15% cane sugar, and the spices N8 lists. Used Willamette for bittering instaed of SGs (i had 'em and they're close enough for bittering) and 1/2 oz. Saaz at 15 min. to flameout. Going strong at 64F this morning. That DT yeast is a killer!
(later on said he preferred N8's version)
-----------------------------
JoeF - p7:
One thing you might want to consider is adding a small amount of yeast nutrient to the kettle - something I neglected on my first try. Also, if you have the means to control temps precisely, is to pitch at a lower temperature and bring the temp up during fermentation. Good luck!




TBoner wrote:Good tips. I'll def. go w/nutrient. When you say "lower temp," what temp do you mean? 60*? 65*? What was your warmest temp during fermentation?



I'm not really sure, as I fermented the entire beer at 75F. From what I've been reading, it's almost standard Belgian brewing practice to pitch at a lower temp and then increase it (that's the difference between Westmalle and Westvletern - they use the same yeast but fermentation temp is way different). Even though DT is not a Trappist brew, starting at a lower temp and then raising it through out the fermentation should create a more complex flavor(theorectically ). Gonna have to experiment. Maybe start at 65F and raise up to 75 or even 80F over the next couple days...just a guess. I'm fixing to rebrew another DT in a couple weeks.



TBoner wrote: Also, on the starter...I thought I saw fermentation activity the first night, but none when I woke up the next a.m. Mon. when I went to step this up, I saw what looked like the beginnings of krausen on the top of the starter wort. It remains there, and there is positive pressure in the airlock. Should I just dump the whole starter into a larger wort now or wait and decant after the krausen disappears? I guess I'm wondering how fast-acting this yeast is when reculturing from the bottle....



I would say it depends on your current volume. I've always just dumped the smaller first volumes into the larger ones, etc. It took me about 1.5 weeks to get the starter where I liked it(very subjective, I know).

Fermenting: p 11
mashweasel Stan and I talked about this exact thing. Say maybe 4 days around 60 -65 and then goose it up to about 80F. I like the fermentwrap but over a heat vent or the like will do.

After 10 days in the primary you should be at your FG. I see around 85% attenuation this way with the Duvel yeast. When I pitch on to a yeast cake of it Ill get nearly 90%. I find its the attenuation that really makes the difference in these beers and the fruityness that you get from the high ferm temps.

-------------------
Denny - p7
Yeah, mine never went above 68 and most of the time was in the 64-65 range. (fermenting temp)
more on p11:

JoeF:
I fermented exactly like Denny and Mashweasel described. Started at ~ 65F, for 4 days then let 'er rip. And I mean the wort was actually 62F at pitching and I put my temp override probe(enclased in sanitized plastic) into the fermenter. I got burned bad on a LaChouffe clone by pitching in the high 70's. Too much fusels, they aged out for the most part but the beer has zippo head retention, etc. I swear, the only yeast I will ferment that high with is the Saison Dupont strain, but maybe that's just me.

mashweasel p15:
You need a lot of yeast, I like pitching about .5L (2bil cells/ ml) of slurry per 5 gallons. This yeast cant be old and must be ready to go.

I start the ferment at 62F, let it go for 3 days, then strap on a brew belt and get it crankin around 80-85F. Its finished when it leaves the primary. I dont do a normal 2ndary. I put it directly to lager which drops all the yeast out. Then I repitch with fresh yeast and corn sugar to get about 4 volumes of CO2. Works really really well!

yeast:
mashweasel: I like a mixture of the Duvel and L'Chouffe strains. Very very good when you put them together. As for a bottling strain, it truely doesnt matter. Ive tried 5 different bottling strains and they are all the same. The only important thing is that you get enough fresh yeast in the bottle. Duvel works really good. I use about 3mil cells/ml and enough sugar to make it about 4 vols (180g/5gal). It will be completely carbonated after about 4 days at 60F but it will continue to dry out over a while.

p.20 - Okay gentlemen. I brewed a 10 gallon batch in two carboys. In one, I threw in WLP550 and WLP 570 - 1800ml starter. From what I read on Mr. Malty, these are the Duvel and Lachuffe strains.

p.20 - Don't be nervous about stepping up your starters. Just wipe down your work area with a dilute bleach solution or spray it down with star-san. Work quickly and carefully. Sometimes when re-sealing I like to wipe down the vessel surface near the opening with cheap vodka. Also paper towels soaked in the cheasp vodka makes for a great protective covering of the opening. I used to clone cell lines for a living, you would bve surprised at what I was able to get away with, technique-wise.

That said, I would advise against goining from bottles to quart starter to wort. The yeast in those bottles have been sitting in alcohol for a while and are tuckered out. The more steps you do the greater numbers you will expand as well as increased viability.

p21- framptonbmx: Holy Crap!!! This beer is so dead on accurate it's ridiculous. it's also fantastic tasting. I collected yeast out of a couple bottles of DT, stepped up 3 times to get a half gallon starter, and had a SG of 1.072 and a FG of 1.006. Just about 9% alcohol, and yet it goes down so smoothly. I used the recipe as N8 brewed it and I have a bottle of DT in the fridge that I will do a comparison on as soon as my clone has conditioned in the fridge for a couple weeks. Thank you to all the cool dudes who got together to figure out this recipe. It's delicious and I love it

mashweasel: Yeah, thats my yeast chart. Those are right.

Im VERY happy to see that you are experimenting for yourself. I really like the Duvel/ L'Chouffe combo. The biggest thing you can do to ensure a better clone is to make sure that you bottle condition to about 4 vols of CO2 (~180g corn sugar/ 5gallon). It will 'crisp' up the finished beer and give that 'zip' that is trademark of these types of beers.

weights and measures of grain: p.19
I just looked at promash and I think the % that they show is the percentage of weight. For instance 8 lbs of pale and 2 lbs of sugar work out to 80% and 20% respectively but the %GU of each wouldn't be 80% and 20%. That is why I'm wondering when for the DT recipe they say 85% and 15% if they are talking about weight or GU. I'm assuming GU but not totally sure if I'm assuming correctly.

Denny: Go by % of fermentables (GU).



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[lael]

Lodan - according to most Belgian brewers the complexity comes from the yeast with most grists (tripel karmeleit is a notable exception) being one or two malts plus sugar for extra abv without being overly thick. Candy sugar of various grades for colour and complexity. They are hard to nail - you need to treat the yeast right.

Manticle - have you done a karmeliet tripel clone? that is my fave tripel by far. Would also be interested to see your duvel recipe if you don't mind sharing it!

I've tried to make a leffe blond once - was close, and yet so far all at once. Would like to be able to nail it.

 

[Lochem]

lael:

WOW.

that will need to be printed and reviewed. ill keep the highliter handy as well

can you enlighten a noob as to how to culture yeast from a bottle of consumed beer? without any sanitation issues etc? ive never attempted this.

thanks for the support!! rock on

 

[lael]

Look it up on YouTube for some good vids. Essentially you want to be anal with sanitisation.

1. Chill beer to very very cold, standing upright to get the yeast to crash to the bottom.
2. Open beer with sanitised opener, use lightnoticeably n lip of bottle. All not moving the bottle much.
3. Gently Pour out all but about 1cm or so of the. ottle. Spray lid with sanitiser, put back on bottle.
4. Let warm to room temp.
5. Either pour into preprepared wort around 1030 (Erlenmeyer is best and yeast nutrient etc) or add some pres free apple juice to the bottle. Wait for signs of life (up to 72 hrs) swirling from time to time. The first step not much will happen - though I've found the DT yeast(s) to be a super hero.

Step up four to five times ( 150ml, 500ml, 1L, 2L ).

You should use the dregs of 2 bottles for one starter. Did I mention an Erlenmeyer is a good idea? Keg king have them for cheap, and there was a thread about Aus post having them too.

I found the wort from the cultured yeast was noticably similar to DT very quickly. (I was using malt not apple juice).

Good Luck! It took me a couple of goes, and my success was rapid once I bit the bullet and bought erlenmeyers.... And started the progression. To all grain etc Lol. Cheap beer

Of course... Making a couple of cases of quadruppel or DT makes a compelling case for the economics of pretty much any rig you build...

 

[mr_wibble]

Look for "Brew like a Monk" or something like it.

I enjoyed this book.

It has in-depth information on how the trappist breweries work, and Stan Hieronymus has actually gone an talked to the monks.
It's not a "description + recipe" book though, and I somewhat agree with MHB (post #3 above) too.

There's also Michael Jackson's "Great Beers of Belgium". Mr Jackson was the original "Beer Hunter", and was one of the first people to write seriously about beer. He received an award form the Belgian Royal Family for is work in 1994.
If you enjoy being able to buy anything other than four types of lager at your local bottleshop - you have this guy to thank.
I have not finished reading this book though, it is laid out a bit like an encyclopedia. It's a great book, maybe one you should borrow for inspiration. But it wont give you much information on how to brew, other than the odd grist element.

Please follow up to this list if you do find a great book.

 

[manticle]

Manticle - have you done a karmeliet tripel clone? that is my fave tripel by far. Would also be interested to see your duvel recipe if you don't mind sharing it!

I've tried to make a leffe blond once - was close, and yet so far all at once. Would like to be able to nail it.

Never tried to brew karmeleit.

My golden recipe is in the db. I'll hunt it up later today. Need to make it again soon.

 

[mr_wibble]

[clone] Gulden Draak 9000 Quadruple

I had this beer the other day (got it from BelgianShop.com). After poking around for a recipe, I found that it is listed in the book "Clone Brews" (page 350 in my edition), and is reported (at least on that HomeBrewTalk website) as being a good facsimile of the original.

 

[MHB]

I did this beer twice in parallel with Weyermann and with Dingermans, fermented side by side, the one wit the Belgian malt was a clear winner, used real Belgian Candi in both, I'm not 100% convinced that using Clear Candi is necessary, I think if you just used home made invert syrup the result would be virtually the same.
Not the case in my experience when it comes to the darker forms of Candi, then it can make a big difference, the real stuff is way better.
Having said that, there was a noticeable difference between two attempts at Westvleteren Blond between one brewed with normal white sugar and one with Belgian Candi - tho it wasn't a true side by side recipe test.
Mark

 

[winkle]

I enjoyed this book.

It has in-depth information on how the trappist breweries work, and Stan Hieronymus has actually gone an talked to the monks.
It's not a "description + recipe" book though, and I somewhat agree with MHB (post #3 above) too.

There's also Michael Jackson's "Great Beers of Belgium". Mr Jackson was the original "Beer Hunter", and was one of the first people to write seriously about beer. He received an award form the Belgian Royal Family for is work in 1994.
If you enjoy being able to buy anything other than four types of lager at your local bottleshop - you have this guy to thank.
I have not finished reading this book though, it is laid out a bit like an encyclopedia. It's a great book, maybe one you should borrow for inspiration. But it wont give you much information on how to brew, other than the odd grist element.

Please follow up to this list if you do find a great book.

I agree with MBH as well, the first half of Brew like a Monk" is great. And "Great Beers of Belgium" is a good, even facinating read.

 

[manticle]

Never tried to brew karmeleit.

My golden recipe is in the db. I'll hunt it up later today. Need to make it again soon.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1298-duvel-homage-belgian-golden-strong/

Agreed on the candy. In dark beers I reckon the expensive syrup is well worth it and different to any syrup I've ever tried to make. For pale beers, dex is the goer. I tried raw sugar in a couple and don't recommend it.