Boil Volume & Multiple Hlt?

[beerguide]

I am looking to purchase my first kettle today and I primarily do 22-23 litre batches. However on the odd occasion I do a double or 44-46 litre batches.

Using BeerSmith a 44 litre batch requires a boil volume of 48.25 litres. Which as far as I can tell should fit, snuggly, in a 50 litre pot. However speaking with a few other AG brewers they say I need a 60 litre pot at a minimum. I've searched and can't find a definitive answer, even on these boards here as it seems everyone has an opinion on what size to get.

Basically I want to buy one pot and if 95% of the time I only do 22 litre batches, so be it but I want to make sure that if I step up and want to do the odd double or two I have the equipment from the word go. I'm looking at getting one from Beerbelly.com.au and having him weld in all the goodies (brewkettle mod, pickup tube, and a thermometer) so I want to make sure I get it right once and once only.

Who do I trust, my gut, beersmith, or just pray and hope?

Secondly is it possible to use multiple HLT instead of a single large HLT? I have two cheap nasty pots from the Reject Shop that I've never used for anything of about 19 litres each. My thoughts were to use a camping stove with multiple burners and heat two HLTs at once. I understand Im more likely to lose more water to boil off/evaporation, but beyond this is there really a need to pay nearly 200-300 bucks for a single large pot over two 15 dollar pots for a HLT?

 

[Steve]

I am looking to purchase my first kettle today and I primarily do 22-23 litre batches. However on the odd occasion I do a double or 44-46 litre batches.

Using BeerSmith a 44 litre batch requires a boil volume of 48.25 litres. Which as far as I can tell should fit, snuggly, in a 50 litre pot. However speaking with a few other AG brewers they say I need a 60 litre pot at a minimum. I've searched and can't find a definitive answer, even on these boards here as it seems everyone has an opinion on what size to get.

Basically I want to buy one pot and if 95% of the time I only do 22 litre batches, so be it but I want to make sure that if I step up and want to do the odd double or two I have the equipment from the word go. I'm looking at getting one from Beerbelly.com.au and having him weld in all the goodies (brewkettle mod, pickup tube, and a thermometer) so I want to make sure I get it right once and once only.

Who do I trust, my gut, beersmith, or just pray and hope?

Secondly is it possible to use multiple HLT instead of a single large HLT? I have two cheap nasty pots from the Reject Shop that I've never used for anything of about 19 litres each. My thoughts were to use a camping stove with multiple burners and heat two HLTs at once. I understand Im more likely to lose more water to boil off/evaporation, but beyond this is there really a need to pay nearly 200-300 bucks for a single large pot over two 15 dollar pots for a HLT?

Zoddy - i'd be going a 60-70 litre kettle. I was going to do the same i.e. double batches with a 50 litre kettle and was advised not to as it would be too "snug" and the chances of boil-over would be huge. Regarding the two HLT why dont you give it a try on your first double batch. If its a pain in the arse (which I think it would be) turn your old 50 litre kettle into the HLT. :beer:
Cheers
Steve

 

[andrewg]

Zoddy
I squeeze a 21L batch (27-28L preboil vol) into ~30L electric boiler - need to keep an eye on it and skimming the hot break early helps control the boil, but I can comfortably maintain a rolling boil without boil-overs (touch wood). If my preboil vol is higher (eg 25L batch), I start out boiling the excess wort in a large pot on the kitchen stove then top-up the main boiler as the level drops with evaporation.
Fiddly, but seems to work fine.
cheers
HStB

 

[bconnery]

50lt will work great for 23L.
You would struggle for double batches. I think 48L is a bit shy of what you would need.
I would just be asking yourself if you do them often enough to justify the increased cost of a 60-70L kettle.
As for the hlt question. Using two 19l is fine. There is no reason not to, except that a camping stove might not have the grunt to boil the water fast enough. If time isn't an issue you might be fine.
If you already have the stove you could time how long it takes to bring up the necessary amount of water, and make a decision from there (re-using the water for something of course ). That's what I did.
Then I bought a bigger burner...

 

[razz]

Just to completely confuse you zoddy, I do 42 lt batches in a 50 lt pot and after the boil add boiling water to get my desired volume.

 

[Stuster]

I have a 50L pot and sometimes do double batches. I have done a boil with 48L in it (without a boil over ) but when it's that close to the top, it's a matter of watching it like a hawk and turning the heat down just before it gets to a full boil. Then stir the froth in to avoid it boiling over. Basically, it's a pain in the ass but it's possible. If I do a 40L boil it's no problem. I'd definitely say the 60-70L kettle would be much more convenient and worth the extra cash.

 

[beerguide]

Hehe, thanks for the replies guys.

Razz, can you elaborate a little more - you boil up to the max that will fit in your pot comfortably, and then just add boiled water (from hlt, a kitchen kettle, whatever) into your fermenter and chill?

I guess this is really where my knowledge is lacking, the boil size what does that relate too? What is the impact of brewing way under the volume suggested by Beersmith, or indeed way over. For example boiling 15 litres instead of 28 say, or 48 instead of 28?

 

[razz]

Hehe, thanks for the replies guys.

Razz, can you elaborate a little more - you boil up to the max that will fit in your pot comfortably, and then just add boiled water (from hlt, a kitchen kettle, whatever) into your fermenter and chill?

I guess this is really where my knowledge is lacking, the boil size what does that relate too? What is the impact of brewing way under the volume suggested by Beersmith, or indeed way over. For example boiling 15 litres instead of 28 say, or 48 instead of 28?

Yep, it's called diluted gravity brewing. I've done it ever since I moved to double batches. The pre-boil and post-boil gravities are the same. I add the boiled water to the kettle post-boil and then run the whole lot through the chiller to the fermenter.

 

[Wrenny]

Could you boil a few litres the day before, freeze them in sanitised ice cream containers and put these in your fermenter when you put the cooled wort in? This could help you get down those last few degrees quickly.

 

[crozdog]

Hehe, thanks for the replies guys.

Razz, can you elaborate a little more - you boil up to the max that will fit in your pot comfortably, and then just add boiled water (from hlt, a kitchen kettle, whatever) into your fermenter and chill?

I guess this is really where my knowledge is lacking, the boil size what does that relate too? What is the impact of brewing way under the volume suggested by Beersmith, or indeed way over. For example boiling 15 litres instead of 28 say, or 48 instead of 28?

zoddy,

Razz is making higher gravity brews which he dilutes (usually this is done when pouring from cube to fermetner) to get the desired FG. Boil size is irrelevant cause you can dilute any size batch. Programs like beersmith have dilution calculators you can play with. From memory 15l 1056 wort will dilute to 1047 with the addition of 4l water.

Have a muck around with the dilution calculator & you will quickly work out what gravity you need post boil to dilute to a desired final volume/gravity. This process is handy if you are limited by your kettles size or want to make many cubes of the 1 brew eg you coulds get around 4 x 15l cubes from a 70l kettle :icon_cheers: .

My vote is go for the bigger kettle to start with. It will give you more options down the track.

 

[razz]

Could you boil a few litres the day before, freeze them in sanitised ice cream containers and put these in your fermenter when you put the cooled wort in? This could help you get down those last few degrees quickly.

Yep.

 

[oldbugman]

zoddy,

Razz is making higher gravity brews which he dilutes (usually this is done when pouring from cube to fermetner) to get the desired FG. Boil size is irrelevant cause you can dilute any size batch. Programs like beersmith have dilution calculators you can play with. From memory 15l 1056 wort will dilute to 1047 with the addition of 4l water.

Have a muck around with the dilution calculator & you will quickly work out what gravity you need post boil to dilute to a desired final volume/gravity. This process is handy if you are limited by your kettles size or want to make many cubes of the 1 brew eg you coulds get around 4 x 15l cubes from a 70l kettle :icon_cheers: .

My vote is go for the bigger kettle to start with. It will give you more options down the track.

And then witha bigger pot you can do more concentrated cubes :icon_drunk:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Zoddy,

the post boil volume and gravity is "what you are after" the pre-boil is only a factor of what you need to start with in order to get the results you want. It will depend on the rate at which you boil off (will be different for everyone depending on their boiler and burner) and what length of boil you want to do.

In your case - Using the numbers you are saying that beersmith gives you - you are working on a Boil off rate of 4.25L per hour - Thats about 8% of your starting volume and is right at the lower end of the recommended rates. Its also quite a lot lower than (I think) most homebrewers are actually getting on their systems. You might well find that when you actually boil your wort for the first time... that you lose a fair bit more than that

Just to use myself as an example ... If I did a 44L (end of boil volume) batch, I would need a starting volume of just shy of 52L - and I boil off at a lower rate than most homebrewers do.

So whether your 50L pot would even hold the full volume of a boil for a 44L batch isn't a closed question. And if you make a beer where you would like to do a boil longer than 60min... definitely not.

Razz's method of high gravity brewing works too and means you can squeeze some extra litres out of you pot.. there are a couple of minor side issues to doing it that way, but they aren't biggies and would mean bugger all on the occasional batch.

If I were you ... I'd go the 60L pot. Big enough for a full double batch with a 60min boil, and if you need to go a little bigger or boil longer ... you can do the high gravity thing.

Thirsty

 

[rehnton]

how do you calculate IBUs in diluted brewing?
I have the same issue in that my kettle is 50L (keg). With evaporation and deadspace i cannot get enough volume pre-boil for double batches (i need 40L into my fermenter so for mysystem i calculate that 50L is the minimum pre-boil volume).
Have considered diluting post boil. While its easy to calulate diluting and affect on OG (ie promash calculator) there is nothing to show the affect on IBU's.

 

[oldbugman]

how do you calculate IBUs in diluted brewing?
I have the same issue in that my kettle is 50L (keg). With evaporation and deadspace i cannot get enough volume pre-boil for double batches (i need 40L into my fermenter so for mysystem i calculate that 50L is the minimum pre-boil volume).
Have considered diluting post boil. While its easy to calulate diluting and affect on OG (ie promash calculator) there is nothing to show the affect on IBU's.

From the info that I have found it would be a straight ratio conversion. 15Litres of 40IBU diluted to 20L would be 30IBU, diluted to 25L would be 24IBU, diluted to 30L would be 20IBU

 

[beerguide]

Guys you have all been really helpful - this really is a friendly and helpful board to be a member of! Thank you.

From your feedback I have just ordered a 70 ltr kettle with some mods to it by beerbelly.com.au.

Thanks again for all your feedback, Im just glad I got my tax back to pay for this lot