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Boil Times 60-90 Minutes.

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Truman42

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In the past Ive always done a 90 minute boil.

I've been reading up on boil times and how an increased boil time will help with melanoidon development, caramelization of wort etc which suits maltier styles.
So is there an advantage in decreasing boil times to 60 mins for pale ales etc and only doing a 90 min boil for malt driven beers. Does anyone follow this in their brewing?
 

drew9242

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I do all 90 min boils because i hate the taste of DMS. I had 2 batchs with DMS and then started doing 90 min boils. I havnt had the problem again yet (touch wood).
 

Lord Raja Goomba I

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I do occasionally do 60 minute boils, but generally 90 minutes - mainly due to the limitations in my system - by the time I'm up to boil, I'm having to add more sparge runnings (after the initial sparge) and I end up caramelising.

If I'm not doing much sparging, them it's a 60 minute boil for me.

I do find the 90 minute boils end up with darker beers than I (or brewmate) expect.
 

QldKev

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I would say it depends on your boil off rates. I like to boil hard, but only do so for 60mins to get about 12% boil off rate.

QldKev
 

beerdrinkingbob

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Unless using pilsner malt I've always boiled for 75, so somewhere in between. This is so the wort can have a good hard boil to ensure all the break has formed before i add the hops.

Lately I've been adding my bittering hops at 40 minutes, so have dialed it back to 60.

Cheers

BDB
 

PhantomEasey

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As I'm currently brewing over-gravity in a 20L BIAB urn, I use a 90min boil to allow for spargings to be periodically added to the boil throughout the first 60 mins or so. Without the 'additional' 30 minutes of boil time, my efficiency drops a fair whack. Haven't had any DMS issues yet either, whether or not that's an added bonus or just plain luck is another debate entirely.

Done it for pale ales the last 4 or 5 batches and my novice palate hasn't picked any over maltiness or darkening of the colour that may be attributed to melanoidin development or caramelisation.

Nothing a side-by-side double brewday can't investigate Truman - I'm happy to help with the testing :p
 

HoppingMad

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Ripped from another forum, but I'm happy to plagiarise when they can express it better than me ;)

A 90 minute boil time is usually only done where there is Pilsner malt in the grainbill. It's done to drive off DMS precursors, which can cause a cooked corn flavor/aroma in beers. Longer boils are also done in big beers to concentrate the wort to drive up the gravity. They also could be done for hop utilization in really bitter beers.
That pretty much sums it up I reckon. One thing I'd add is 'when there is a large percentage of Pilsener malt in the grainbill'.

Hopper.
 

Nick JD

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If I boil for 90 minutes I virtually make malt extract. Only ever 60 minutes, Pils malt or no. If I boil on FULL I get 20%+ loss in 60 minutes and I'm already boiling 1.060+ for all beers. Melanoidins? Youbetchya.

No DMS, although I still wonder about the floor malted Boh Pils "baby corn" taste - never got that using any other grain and 25% evap didn't eliminate it. I don't use the FM stuff anymore.
 

stux

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Baby corn from floor malted Bo pils sounds like text book DME to me

Only time I get had DMS was in a starter and it smelled just like canned corn kernels
 

Nick JD

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Baby corn from floor malted Bo pils sounds like text book DME to me

Only time I get had DMS was in a starter and it smelled just like canned corn kernels
I don't think it is - mainly because I know what DMS tastes like, and it doesn't taste like DMS. Tastes like the smell of husking a just-picked cob.

Regardless, I don't buy FM Boh Pils anymore. I'd prefer not to have it in my lagers, and the normal Boh Pils grain doesn't have it.

90 minutes boiling and 30% evap didn't get rid of it. Changing to normal Boh Pils did.
 

Bribie G

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Occasionally I've forgotten to set the timer, got engrossed in something and totally lost the plot or even crashed in front of the TV - fortunately I don't have pets or small children around - ( a few Midnight Trains don't help either) and had to guess at the current stage of boil, and later calculate that I'd only given it say 45 minutes. Beer has turned out fine and well hopped.
 

1974Alby

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I have run out of gas at 40 minutes before...beer turned out awesome!..I still generally try and boil for 60 and have been told to boil for 90m with Maris Otter which I do if using that grain...but Im no longer too meticulous about it after my 40 minute success. :D
 

DJR

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I got DMS from a bag of Best Pils which made me switch to a 90 min boil when using that malt... still didn't help! So i just don't use Best Pils anymore, JW pils all the way (very low DMS-p for a Pils malt). I do a 65 min boil - get it to boil, wait 5 mins then add the 60 min hops.
 

MHB

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Among the usually listed reasons for wort boiling is one that doesnt get enough attention; that is the removal of High Molecular Weight Protein and Tannins.
The longer you boil the less of these materials end up in your beer and the better your beer is for their removal.
This from the IBD training information is a good read. View attachment 02___The_function_of_wort_boiling1_1_.pdf
Note the table at the bottom of the last page that shows the measured amount of remaining protein by molecular weight.
As discussed in another thread recently, getting most of the break material out of the wort before adding the hops should give you better utilisation or bang for your buck.
As is most things brewing there are pros and cons, longer boils use more energy but improve the beer (generally) any decision will be a compromise, just have to find the balance point you are happy with.
Mark

Fat finger edit
 

drsmurto

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I don't think it is - mainly because I know what DMS tastes like, and it doesn't taste like DMS. Tastes like the smell of husking a just-picked cob.

Regardless, I don't buy FM Boh Pils anymore. I'd prefer not to have it in my lagers, and the normal Boh Pils grain doesn't have it.

90 minutes boiling and 30% evap didn't get rid of it. Changing to normal Boh Pils did.
What does DMS taste like?

The concentration of a compound changes the perception so whilst at high levels DMS is perceived as corn (fresh, canned, baby) at lower levels it has a more asparagus, cooked cabbage/vegetable flavour/aroma. The threshold for DMS is ~25-30ug/L. At lower levels DMS can actually be beneficial, more so in wine but could also in hop driven beers where the DMS combines with the hop aromatics in a synergistic effect (this hasn't been researched in beer to my knowledge). It's part of certain euro lager styles as well.

DMS can also be formed by the yeast during fermentation, something boil length/vigour has less of an effect on. I wouldn't always be pointing the finger at the grain.

On topic - I boil for 90 mins minimum. I do this for a few reasons. Firstly, it gives me time to get a good hot break by boiling hard for 30 mins prior to adding the 60 min hop addition. This reduces the amount of proteinaceous material in the wort which as it flocculates also binds hop components. In my experience this also has a positive effect on the final clarity of my beer and well as the head formation/retention. Another reason is that a longer boil volume means i need a larger boil volume which means i sparge more which means i get more of the sugars out of my wort and increase the efficiency.

I do this for all beer regardless of the grain bill.

Big beers (barleywine, imperial stout/IPA) get 120 min boils but that then is more due to higher degrees of caramelisation/maillard reactions (flavour development) and further increasing the sparging to increase efficiency.
 

mje1980

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90 mins for everything, FTW. Use best pils with no issues. I find the beers clear up a little better. If pushed for time I might do 75, but rarely happens.
 

hsb

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Same here, 90 minutes for everything minimum. Makes for consistent platform for comparison, and 30 minutes is nothing in 'brewing time.'
I think it works out at something around 40L to end up with 25 odd litres. (I aim to get starter wort too)
I boil hard to hit a nice big foamy hot break, then down to a rolling boil. I'd never considered caramelisation, is it a factor in a 40L pot of sugary water?
 

Amber Fluid

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Some interesting answers.

I usually boil for 60 minutes and have never had a problem. I have done a few 90 minute boils but personally I can't tell the difference.
 

mckenry

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Just to throw my 2c in.
I boil for 75, just to split the difference. Hard for 15 mins for break, then add the 60 mins hops if recipe requires it.
If my first hops are 45 mins, then I still boil for 75, just that the first 30 mins has no additions.
100% of my beers are JW pils as base and I dont get DMS. If I do I dont know what it tastes like... :lol:
 

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