Biab Urns: Birko Vs Crown

[MarkBastard]

I am cashed up and ready to buy one of these urns but after reading heaps I still can't decide.

From what I can tell the pros and cons are as follows.

Crown:
* Pro: It has a concealed element
* Con: Need to modify the boil dry switch to achieve decent performance
* Con: Poorer boiling performance, even when modified to bypass the boil dry switch

Birko:
* Pro: It has better boiling performance
* Pro: No need to modify
* Con: Exposed element harder to clean / may require more care to not burn the bag.

Obviously if the Birko is only slightly better performance wise than the Crown, maybe the Crown is the better option, but I haven't really seen anything close to a side by side comparison. ie in the same room would a Crown take an hour to bring 30L of water to 100 degrees but the Birko would only take 45 minutes?

I'm tempted to go the Crown because it'd be easier for me to clean (this is important to me because I hate cleaning more than anything), and because I can get it from craftbrewer and not have to deal with catering supply companies (who have annoyed me thus far with their bullshit). But then again I read about the performance issues and picture myself waiting anxiously to hit temperatures thinking "which didn't I get a f**king Birko?".

 

[Supra-Jim]

Can't help you on the side by side (i have 40L Crown and no issues with it at all), however could you improve the boiling performance of both units by insulating the walls? They are very thin and i think would lose a significant amount of heat (esp in cold melb enviroments, may less so up north).

Note: I use my for a HLT not BIAG witchcraft.

Cheers SJ

 

[MarkBastard]

Can't help you on the side by side (i have 40L Crown and no issues with it at all), however could you improve the boiling performance of both units by insulating the walls? They are very thin and i think would lose a significant amount of heat (esp in cold melb enviroments, may less so up north).

Note: I use my for a HLT not BIAG witchcraft.

Cheers SJ

Probably should have mentioned that, yes I would insulate either one upon purchase. In fact I already have a camping matt to use for that purpose.

EDIT: In a thread someone mentioned they have evap rates of 15% per hour for the crown when modified to bypass the boil-dry and when insulated as well I believe.

If anyone has a figure for the Birko that would be handy. People that have calibrated for use with Beersmith etc should have this information?

 

[glaab]

EDIT: In a thread someone mentioned they have evap rates of 15% per hour for the crown when modified to bypass the boil-dry and when insulated as well I believe.

If anyone has a figure for the Birko that would be handy. People that have calibrated for use with Beersmith etc should have this information?

you should find that in PistolPatchs BIAB survey if you can find it, 15% sounds a bit over the top.
both 2400W units would boil at the same rate I expect, there is a 3600W Birko. I have a Birko which seems good but havent used it much. Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

The only disadvantage I can see with my Birko is indeed the cleaning of the element. It doesn't get stuff actually burned on, but it is a bit difficult to get into the nooks and crannies because there are wires going to the sensors that get in the way of any scrubbing pad.



I'm going to give it a reno soon and try CLR for cleaning it back to new condition as the same time that I put in a 'proper' tap.

During a BIAB witchcraft h34r: session, burning the bag isn't an issue if you use passive lagging during the mash - e.g. my sleeping bag and my long suffering doonah

 

[cozmocracker]

i have the crown urn, i am very happy with it. i have modified it (it was very simple, took 2 minutes if that) and it is very easy to clean. I am happy with its performance and i produce good beer with it, i have had comments that my biab beers are better than some peoples 3 vessel beers, thats more to do with the brewer than the equiptment though. time to pour myself a beer and pat myself on the back lol.

 

[Bribie G]

i have the crown urn, i am very happy with it. i have modified it (it was very simple, took 2 minutes if that) and it is very easy to clean. I am happy with its performance and i produce good beer with it, i have had comments that my biab beers are better than some peoples 3 vessel beers, thats more to do with the brewer than the equiptment though. time to pour myself a beer and pat myself on the back lol.

Off topic slightly but the urn vs 3V thingo sort of misses the point that we are only discussing wort production, not the overall beer production process. As I've posted elsewhere you can make the finest of worts using a $5000 HERMY or RIMMY setup and then proceed to totally stuff it up with a poor choice of yeast, oxygenation, temperature control, etc etc. At the same time you can make a fine wort with a single vessel system and go on to turn it into a legendary beer depending on how you control the subsequent processes.

On topic, on balance - especially here in Brisbane where catering suppliers are hard to track down for some reason - I'd certainly consider a modified Crownie if my current Birko ever failed for whatever reason, and knowing that I'm getting it from a rock solid supplier, CB.

 

[MarkBastard]

both 2400W units would boil at the same rate I expect

I've heard this is not the case as the Crown's element isn't exposed. I guess that means it's not directly heating the wort, but instead heating the bottom of the pot, which heats the wort. It appears you lose performance because of this. How much I'm not sure.

 

[MarkBastard]

On topic, on balance - especially here in Brisbane where catering suppliers are hard to track down for some reason - I'd certainly consider a modified Crownie if my current Birko ever failed for whatever reason, and knowing that I'm getting it from a rock solid supplier, CB.

I called one in East Brisbane that had a Birko in stock, but it was the 15amp one. The dude said he could get the 10amp one in on Wednesday. He then said that'll be $330. I said "I called because your website said $250+GST", at which point he informed me I have to order through the website for that price. I'm very much edging towards the Crown/Craft Brewer option. I can pick up some cracked grain at the same time for my first AG

But there IS some Birko suppliers in Brisbane bribie. I found two. The other one was in west end. The prices were slightly more than Sydney but a lot cheaper than buying from Sydney and getting it shipped here. LJStuart wanted $80 + GST to ship to Brisbane. That is highway robbery.

 

[chappo1970]

Mark I have the 40lt 2400w Crown and am very happy with it. You are welcome to come over to Chappo Manor and check it out for yourself and do whatever tests you want on it performance wise.

Chap Chap

 

[MarkBastard]

Mark I have the 40lt 2400w Crown and am very happy with it. You are welcome to come over to Chappo Manor and check it out for yourself and do whatever tests you want on it performance wise.

Chap Chap

Gday Chap. Thanks for the offer but your word is good enough

I think I'll be getting the crown.

Cheers.

 

[chappo1970]

Gday Chap. Thanks for the offer but your word is good enough

I think I'll be getting the crown.

Cheers.

No worries MB. For what it's worth the concealed element was what got me originally and still think it's a great feature of the Crown over the Birko.

Cheers

Chap Chap

 

[pdilley]

I am cashed up and ready to buy one of these urns but after reading heaps I still can't decide.

From what I can tell the pros and cons are as follows.

Birko:
* Con: Exposed element harder to clean / may require more care to not burn the bag.

I went Birko mate, and the con is incorrect. Its a piece of piss to clean. A non scratching pad from the supermarket and plain water with no soap or chemicals and it just falls off and cleans neat as new. One of the easiest pieces of brew gear I got.

I too thought and worried hard over the cleaning issue and its such the opposite I am glad I went with it.

EDIT: My element is different to BribieGs (newer?) Just two ovals side by side instead of a curl. Still no scrub just wipe with pad and water cleaning but thought it was worth mentioning. My allquip ship was close to $18/20 or so.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[MarkBastard]

Cheers brewer pete. I ended up getting a Crown from craftbrewer though. It was buying from a home brew store that tipped me over the edge. I didn't like the 'vibe' of the catering places I called.

 

[Sully]

IIRC the Crown Urns at CBs have sealed elements now...

 

[Bribie G]

I went Birko mate, and the con is incorrect. Its a piece of piss to clean. A non scratching pad from the supermarket and plain water with no soap or chemicals and it just falls off and cleans neat as new. One of the easiest pieces of brew gear I got.

I too thought and worried hard over the cleaning issue and its such the opposite I am glad I went with it.

EDIT: My element is different to BribieGs (newer?) Just two ovals side by side instead of a curl. Still no scrub just wipe with pad and water cleaning but thought it was worth mentioning. My allquip ship was close to $18/20 or so.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

Pete, I noted that on the piccies of the brew day that you posted the Birko had a number of quite different design features from mine, completely different handles and a new label on the side of the urn. So it looks like they have redesigned the heating element as well. Any chance of a photo?

 

[whitegoose]

Spectacular timing - I've just started researching urns, and have now decided - I'm gonna pick up a crown, modify it, and get into the BIAB!!!! :super:

 

[pdilley]

Micheal,

Birko is packed away with all brew gear in shed as I've prepped the house for inspection this Thr. I'll see about photos this weekend.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[GumbyOne]

I bought the birko to use as a HLT and it seems pretty good so far, gets up to strike temp in less than an hour and the thermostat is resonably acurate. The only reason I went for it over the crown was they were on special (around $250) at hotel agencies (and still may be, it was an ongoing special).

 

[MarkBastard]

IIRC the Crown Urns at CBs have sealed elements now...

What does this mean?