Biab Insert

[reg]

Hi guys
My last brew effort I burnt a hole in the side of my bay whilst bringing it up to Mash out temp.

I was thinking of doing this, please be gentle on my idea.

I am currently getting Wayne from Beer Belly to give me a price on knocking up an insert for my urn made out of the same materials used for false bottoms.
There would be feet on the bottom to keep the insert above the element and lifting lugs at the top for easy lifting out of urn.
The bottom and sides would be made out of the same material so as to allow for flow of liquid.

This idea should work, shouldnt it.
What are others views on this and has anyone done the same?

Reg

 

[MarkBastard]

Hi guys
My last brew effort I burnt a hole in the side of my bay whilst bringing it up to Mash out temp.

I was thinking of doing this, please be gentle on my idea.

I am currently getting Wayne from Beer Belly to give me a price on knocking up an insert for my urn made out of the same materials used for false bottoms.
There would be feet on the bottom to keep the insert above the element and lifting lugs at the top for easy lifting out of urn.
The bottom and sides would be made out of the same material so as to allow for flow of liquid.

This idea should work, shouldnt it.
What are others views on this and has anyone done the same?

Reg

I remember there was a thread about this recently.

You obviously can't squeeze it, and I guess the concensus was that it defeats the 'cheap and easy' purposes of BIAB, but I do think its a good idea and worth pursuing.

I hope ultimately BIAB evolves into a single vessel system that is all stainless steel, where a lot of the steps are much easier, perhaps working in some ways like a big coffee plunger etc.

 

[Pollux]

I remember someone posting a link to some baskets that were made by crown to fit their urns...

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Damian44]

Was the bag Swiss Voile?

 

[raven19]

So we are just essentailly talking about an immersible SS mesh cylinder & mesh base with feet?

:icon_offtopic: Sounds good, bit like my Grandpa's old fishing box, you could lift the fish in a mesh basket out of the water filled esky, once you got the boat and esky back to the shack.

Back On topic - In the case of BIAB - are you going to lift it say almost all the way out of the urn then hold it (somehow) and sparge more to wash sugars of the grains into the urn?

 

[Pollux]

Ignore that post, they would have only been useful as hopsocks...

 

[Bribie G]

If you have a skyhook and can raise your bag off the element, then raise temp, switch off power, lower bag, stir like buggery and your'e mashed out.

On the other hand if you have to use muscle power to hoist the bag then your'e a bit stuffed.

I know a couple of guys like Pollux use a cake stand or camping wire-griddle-on-legs thingo which serves to keep the bag off the bottom of the urn.

Personally I find that raising the bag and leaving it drain over the urn for 20 mins while bringing the wort to the boil, then a good squeeze, is a great way of lifting efficiency and any no-squeeze arrangement would be a shame IMHO

 

[MarkBastard]

Back On topic - In the case of BIAB - are you going to lift it say almost all the way out of the urn then hold it (somehow) and sparge more to wash sugars of the grains into the urn?

That's what I was thinking, but I guess you'd have to only have mesh at the bottom otherwise the water would run off sideways?

The whole needing a hoist for BIAB thing seems to me like a traditional setup would be easier. I've done a mini BIAB and the squeezing was managable with 2kg of grain but I can't imagine doing it with 5kg of grain, what a nightmare, must get messy too.

 

[Pollux]

I don't use a cake stand, I just don't have my urn on while the bag is inside....

Bought me some gloves the other day, makes the squeezing a bit easier....

EDIT: I did a mash the other day of 5.5kg of grain, 33L strike volume. at the end I simply tied off the top of the bag, fitted by brandnew dishwashing gloves (1.97 for 2 pairs) stood on a chair and lifted the bag.....

Stood there for about 3 minutes to let the bulk of the bag drain then raised it high enough above the urn so I could slip my 15L pot in underneath....

I then tied the bag to a hook on the back of the door and leave the bag to drain into the pot for a little while, go turn the urn back on to start boiling and then come back and give it a GOOD squeezing...Start of the boil I had 31 litres in the urn

It is easier if the missus is about to help with getting the pot underneath, but it's not impossible to do alone....next I want to find a tub that will hold my big metal colander so I can dump the bag in there and give it a good squeeze.

 

[Katherine]

skyhooks and pulleys are the way.... make's your day so much easier

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I think that if BIAB was to be used as a commercial process, a stainless steel replacement for the voile would be almost a must.

Back here in the real world :lol: I direct heat my kettle to mash-out with the two middle rings of a 4-ring burner and am yet to see any signs of hole-making. Without meaning to sound too critical, I don't understand how people burn their bags.

Stirring (in all senses of the word) is important.

Pulleys are for girls. I use and recommend the RopeRatchetSkyHook(tm):

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zQg_L...feat=directlink

Although it has gone through a modification or two since that photo was taken.

 

[Katherine]

last time I looked I was a girl...

 

[QldKev]

I do like the idea, but as already said it may be worth spending the extra to convert to a 3 stage system.


My method is a BIAB batch sparge..

I start by leaving out 3L of water from the original mash.

Once mashout time
Hang the bag over a bucket

Once drained mostly couple of minutes,
drain the bucket into the kettle,
drop the bag into the bucket and open,
pour your 3L of sparge water at 80c over the grain, (this is heated in the kitchen using a normal house pot)
rehang bag to drain.

The container I use (in the pic) cost $8 from Bunnings.
My pre-boil efficiency lowest has been 77%, the first ever brew was 80%.
For an extra few % I dont think it is worth the hassle of changing. I'll just throw in an extra handful of grain up front.. (will actually be a calculated weight based on brewhouse efficiency )

Also as a side benifit I get to put the lid on the kettle while playing to help get to a boil as quick as possible.


Not saying this is the best method; it is just what I do. I don't want to spend anymore $ on a system that by design was a simple/cheap method to get into AG

QldKev

 

[Ross]

The whole needing a hoist for BIAB thing seems to me like a traditional setup would be easier. I've done a mini BIAB and the squeezing was managable with 2kg of grain but I can't imagine doing it with 5kg of grain, what a nightmare, must get messy too.

:icon_chickcheers:


Cheers Ross

 

[Mantis]

Hoisting the bag is not a biggy. Like Katie said a sky hook is the go and I do it on my own with no problems.
Maybe years of shearing and holding a hot handpeice have numbed my hands to pain , but squeezing the bag is not a big thing either.
Then hang it in a 20L bucket while the heat is turned on to get another litre or two

I take it that you are not a fan of BIAB Ross

 

[reviled]

I cant believe how many people have sky hooks/pulleys :unsure: I for one personally dont think its nessecary, im not trying to say im big and strong or anything, quite the opposite, ive even done 7.1kg batch and lifted it out myself, without any help, held above the kettle then put the bag in a bucket, minimal spillage, easy peasy B) and for squeezing the bag I just got some chux gloves to stop my hands getting burnt..

I would maybe look at a pulley if I was doing double batches, but still prolly not

 

[br33zy]

Hi guys
My last brew effort I burnt a hole in the side of my bay whilst bringing it up to Mash out temp.

I was thinking of doing this, please be gentle on my idea.

I am currently getting Wayne from Beer Belly to give me a price on knocking up an insert for my urn made out of the same materials used for false bottoms.
There would be feet on the bottom to keep the insert above the element and lifting lugs at the top for easy lifting out of urn.
The bottom and sides would be made out of the same material so as to allow for flow of liquid.

This idea should work, shouldnt it.
What are others views on this and has anyone done the same?

Reg

Hi Reg,

We're resisting the move to BIAB until we can resolve this problem as well. I've been trawling the web for a month or so now trying to find a suitable SS mesh basket to use in our kettle.

I wonder whether the hole size would need to be smaller than for false bottoms. My (limited) understanding of the way a false bottom works with sparging is that the process relies on the stability of the grain bed to provide filtering; while the false bottom merely keeps the whole mass clear of the pickup.

Using a basket would be slightly different. When lifting it out, the water will run off the top of the grain and out the holes at the side; as well as down through the grain and out through the bottom - so I think a finer mesh would be necessary. There are some much finer meshes available though; its just whether Wayne could weld them. And by the looks of the stuff we've got from him I'm sure its possible.

Cheers and let us know how you get on.

Breezy

 

[QldKev]

Hi Reg,

We're resisting the move to BIAB until we can resolve this problem as well. I've been trawling the web for a month or so now trying to find a suitable SS mesh basket to use in our kettle.

I wonder whether the hole size would need to be smaller than for false bottoms. My (limited) understanding of the way a false bottom works with sparging is that the process relies on the stability of the grain bed to provide filtering; while the false bottom merely keeps the whole mass clear of the pickup.

Using a basket would be slightly different. When lifting it out, the water will run off the top of the grain and out the holes at the side; as well as down through the grain and out through the bottom - so I think a finer mesh would be necessary. There are some much finer meshes available though; its just whether Wayne could weld them. And by the looks of the stuff we've got from him I'm sure its possible.

Cheers and let us know how you get on.

Breezy

I though the idea was the basket was to stop the bag from hitting the bottom and sides; so still use the bag for straining.

QldKev

 

[KingPython]

Yeah this problem is stopping me from getting an urn and finally moving to AG. Since I rent, a sky hook won't be possible, the next option is to get a ladder and do it Alton Brown turkey frying style. Plus the fact I can't sow a bag

 

[Bizier]

I am working on exactly this problem right now.

I have a 100L robinox (Katie is your's one of these?) and I want to have a flase bottom in it with hoisting points to lift it evenly, and hook it onto the top for draining. I simply cannot use a skyhook, I have even thought about a large tripod, but it is getting ridiculous. But I need something in there to allow it to drain as I raise it to boilling temp. I figure that it doesn't have to sit too far below the top of the kettle either, as you could twist the bag into a kind or pyramid shape and that should keep it flowing into the kettle.

I want to do 50L and possibly 70L batches, so some hoisting mechanism will be necessary.