BIAB AMERICAN PALE ALE (EXTRA HOPPY)

[Hez]

I've tried making a very hoppy IPA three times with more or less the same result. All of them had been good drinkable beers, the second better than the first and the third better than the second, but all of them had the same problems:
- too fruity (<- high fermentation temp)
- very noticeable alcohol
- not hoppy enough

I've come a long way since the first one: I've improved my mashing insulation, sparge technique, temperature measurement, chilling procedure, I bought a bigger kettle and started to take control of the water (minerals and ph), but still there was something very important I was missing, the fermentation temperature control.
I used the wet tshirt method (http://beerandwinejournal.com/wet-t-shirt-cooling/) and I got pretty decent (other styles) beers, but I think it's not enough control enough for making a crisp ale with in-your-face hoppyness.
Now I can cold crash and get rid of the hop shocks for dry hopping -> more contact of the hops with the beer -> more hoppyness!

I found a good second hand bar fridge AT LAST! and I bought the Inkbird ITC-308 dual temperature controller, so when it arrives (and my last beer, the saison, is ready to drink) I want to try a different approach.

With the moroccan heat of a sunny-Sydney-summer (https://www.antipodesmap.com/), you don't want a very alcoholic strong beer, you want a crisp, refreshing beer like an American Pale Ale.

@see proto-recipe below

I have Citra (I want to finish it) and I think Amarillo would be a good combination, or would you use Cascade instead? or other one? What do you think of the "hop-schedule"? I don't want it too bitter but I want to feel like I'm chewing weed when I drink it. Full American experience

Silly question: how do you feel about squeezing (sanitized hands ) the hop shocks when removing them from the kettle?

I've drunk a couple of hoppy beers with some wheat into them (Fred's IPA is one of my favourite beers right now) and I like the extra body and head retention. Do you think 5% is too much? too little to notice? maybe 7.5% better?
I've seen many recipes including Vienna and Biscuit malts, but I don't know...

About the water adjustments, the idea is: Medium Cl and SO4 but ratio still below .77 (enhance bitterness), slightly high Ca and intermediate-to-low pH. Sounds good?

I'm very interested about the fermentation temp, obviously! <- new fridge!
With US-05: Pitch @20º, ferment @18º, dry hop @20º? what do you think?

Here is the proto-recipe:

P.S. I forgot to say this is for a 10L BATCH or half batch.

GRAIN:
90% Pale 2Row
5% Crystal 54L
5% Wheat Malt

OG 1055
FG 1013
ABV ~5.5%


MASH:
65ºC 90' <- not too high, I don't want a sweet beer
76ºC 10'
Sparge @76ºC


HOPS:
60' 3g Citra 12.8%AA -> 9.15IBU
60' 3g Amarillo 9.5%AA -> 6.79IBU

15' 5g Citra 12.8%AA -> 7.77IBU
15' 5g Amarillo 9.5%AA -> 5.62IBU

5' 12g Citra 12.8%AA -> 7.30IBU
5' 12g Amarillo 9.5%AA -> 5.42IBU

0' 20g Citra 12.8%AA -> 2.63IBU (steep 30' @80º then remove and chill)
0' 25g Amarillo 9.5%AA -> 2.44IBU (steep 30' @80º then remove and chill)

TOTAL IBU 47.12

DRY HOP 30g Citra 12.8%AA for 6 days (without hop-shock)
DRY HOP 55g Amarillo 9.5%AA for 6 days (without hop-shock)


WATER ADJUSTMENTS:
Use Gypsum/Calcium Sulphate/CaSO4 , Calcium Chloride CaCl2 and Lactic Acid 88% to:
Ca: 133 <- Palmer's recommended range 50-150
Mg: 23 <- Palmer's recommended range 10-30
Na: 16 <- Palmer's recommended range 0-150
Cl: 124 <- Palmer's recommended range 0-250
SO4: 171 <- Palmer's recommended range 50-350
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.73 <- Below .77, May enhance bitterness
Estimated pH (room temp): 5.4 <- Palmer's recommended range 5.4-5.6


YEAST:
Safale US-05
Pitch @20ºC
5 days @18ºC
Dry Hop @20ºC for 6 days (without hop-shock)
Cold crash 24h (the coldest the fermentation bar fridge reach)


CARBONATION:
2.8Vol CO2 <- insult me and call me whatever you like... I like carbonation, specially in summer!
0.33L, 20ºC, 2.6g


ARTICLES/INFO:
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv
Citra: grapefruit, melon, lime, gooseberry, passion fruit and lychee.

https://ychhops.com/varieties/amarillo-brand-vgxp01
Amarillo: grapefruit, orange, lemon, melon, apricot and peach.

https://byo.com/bock/item/1759-american-pale-ale-style-profile
American Pale Ale: Style Profile

https://byo.com/body/item/1197-oh-say-can-you-c
Oh, Say Can You "C"?: A Guide to Brewing Hoppy American Pale Ales

https://byo.com/hops/item/133-american-pale-ale
American Pale Ale


Thanks in advance.

 

[Benn]

Do you keg? I find Keg hopping with whole cones or pellets works marvelously for APA's & IPA's
I BIAB-No Chill (different to your rig I know) I use a basic bittering hop like Magnum to get the bulk of the IBU's then go in late with American/NZ or Home Grown hops.
I always use US05 and generally start it off at 18deg (sometimes a tad lower depending on the day) and hold it at 18 for around 7 days or until fermentation has slowed then I raise the temp to 20 for a few days until cold crash.
As mentioned above I'm a fan of keg hopping and prefer this over dry hopping if I'm after more Hop oomph.
This seems to yield the best results for my simple equipment.

2c
Cheers

 

[Coodgee]

Seems you are looking for a beer that is very crisp with a lot of hop flavour.

Factors affecting perception of crispness in order of magnitude:

1. serving temp. All beer will taste crisper the colder it is. This may affect flavour perception however.
2. Finishing gravity. if you are mashing at 65 degrees and pitching sufficient yeast you should be able to get your beer to finish at 1010 or lower. The lower the f.g. the more crisp your beer will taste. I would pitch 2 packets of US05 and ferment at 18-19 degrees and you should hit 1010 f.g. if you start at 1055.
3. ph and mineral content. Your chloride to sulphate ratio is not great if you want to promote a crisp hop flavour. try getting at least twice as much sulphate tho chloride for the same Ca value. ph of 5.4 should be fine. consider also acidifying your sparge water to something like 5.5.
4. Carbonation - more carbonation = more carbonic acid = greater crispness perception.
5. clarity - could be psychosomatic but in my opinion a crystal clear beer is crisper than a hazy one, and especially some of the soupy home brews you see. Try fining with gelatin during the cold crash.

Overall, if you want a really crisp and hoppy ale, go for a west coast US IPA. Get rid of the crystal and replace with wheat. double or triple the last kettle and dry hop additions. treat with care and/or drink fresh.

 

[Hez]

Do you keg? I find Keg hopping with whole cones or pellets works marvelously for APA's & IPA's
I BIAB-No Chill (different to your rig I know) I use a basic bittering hop like Magnum to get the bulk of the IBU's then go in late with American/NZ or Home Grown hops.
I always use US05 and generally start it off at 18deg (sometimes a tad lower depending on the day) and hold it at 18 for around 7 days or until fermentation has slowed then I raise the temp to 20 for a few days until cold crash.
As mentioned above I'm a fan of keg hopping and prefer this over dry hopping if I'm after more Hop oomph.
This seems to yield the best results for my simple equipment.

2c
Cheers

Nope, I don't keg. I'm here in Australia for just a couple of years, I live in a small appartment and I can have very limited equipment... so I make 10L batches and I bottle.
My idea is to learn and try many different recipes while I'm here, so when I go back home (Spain) I know what equipment to buy and I can scale up my recipes.
I've been only brewing for 7 months and I've made 9 beers, this will be the 10th jejeje
I will definitely try keg hopping when I have kegs!
About using "basic" hops for bittering, I guess for most people using Citra or Amarillo would be a waste, but for me all hops are the same price and I can't store many of them. I usually have 2 or 3 hop 100g containers in the fridge.

P.S. If you were thinking I was doing 20L batches and you told me to double the amount of hops at 0' and dry hopping, does it mean for 10L would be enough or would you put even more?

So 18º for fermenting and 20º for finishing/dry hopping. Cool!
Thank you!

 

[Hez]

Seems you are looking for a beer that is very crisp with a lot of hop flavour.

Factors affecting perception of crispness in order of magnitude:

1. serving temp. All beer will taste crisper the colder it is. This may affect flavour perception however.
2. Finishing gravity. if you are mashing at 65 degrees and pitching sufficient yeast you should be able to get your beer to finish at 1010 or lower. The lower the f.g. the more crisp your beer will taste. I would pitch 2 packets of US05 and ferment at 18-19 degrees and you should hit 1010 f.g. if you start at 1055.
3. ph and mineral content. Your chloride to sulphate ratio is not great if you want to promote a crisp hop flavour. try getting at least twice as much sulphate tho chloride for the same Ca value. ph of 5.4 should be fine. consider also acidifying your sparge water to something like 5.5.
4. Carbonation - more carbonation = more carbonic acid = greater crispness perception.
5. clarity - could be psychosomatic but in my opinion a crystal clear beer is crisper than a hazy one, and especially some of the soupy home brews you see. Try fining with gelatin during the cold crash.

Overall, if you want a really crisp and hoppy ale, go for a west coast US IPA. Get rid of the crystal and replace with wheat. double or triple the last kettle and dry hop additions. treat with care and/or drink fresh.

1.I try to drink it right from the fridge! The bottom part above the "veggies-drawer", close to the back of the fridge is the coldest!

2.Ok, so I will go a little lower on the gravity.. to 1052:
1055 - 1010 -> 5.9%
1052 - 1010 -> 5.5%
I think 5.5% is ideal for a refreshing beer, I don't want to taste alcohol

3.Great! I will adjust it!

4.I was planning on 2.8vol CO2. Would you go to 3.0? I use standard brown longnecks, but I did my witbier to 3.2vol CO2 and they didn't explode!

5.I agree on the color, but not necessarily with the hazyness. A belgian witbeer is very refreshing and so hazy they call it "la blanche" in french (literally "the white one"). Anyway, I was planning on using 1/2tablet of deltafloc at 15' (I do 10L batches or "half batches"). I've read about the gelatin but I've never done it. I'll look into it. Which gelatin do you buy? where?

6.So no crystal at all and 10% wheat? I did a saison (it's still in the fermenter) and i used only 80%pilsner 20% wheat, so this will be belgian vs yanky! jejeje

Thank you very much, @Coodgee, great advice!

 

[Coodgee]

1.I try to drink it right from the fridge! The bottom part above the "veggies-drawer", close to the back of the fridge is the coldest!

2.Ok, so I will go a little lower on the gravity.. to 1052:
1055 - 1010 -> 5.9%
1052 - 1010 -> 5.5%
I think 5.5% is ideal for a refreshing beer, I don't want to taste alcohol

3.Great! I will adjust it!

4.I was planning on 2.8vol CO2. Would you go to 3.0? I use standard brown longnecks, but I did my witbier to 3.2vol CO2 and they didn't explode!

5.I agree on the color, but not necessarily with the hazyness. A belgian witbeer is very refreshing and so hazy they call it "la blanche" in french (literally "the white one"). Anyway, I was planning on using 1/2tablet of deltafloc at 15' (I do 10L batches or "half batches"). I've read about the gelatin but I've never done it. I'll look into it. Which gelatin do you buy? where?

6.So no crystal at all and 10% wheat? I did a saison (it's still in the fermenter) and i used only 80%pilsner 20% wheat, so this will be belgian vs yanky! jejeje

Thank you very much, @Coodgee, great advice!

In North Queensland, where I am from, it get's really hot at xmas time in summer. And people are always going in and out of the fridge for food. So many people put their beer in a separate eski full of ice to keep their beer as cold as possible. If you have a ****** old fridge this might be worth a go. Also chill your glass in the fridge or freezer before you pour a beer.

2.8 vols should be ok... could go to 3...

Well there is nothing wrong with crystal in an APA but it is definitely one of the factors that affects residual sugar content of beer so it's worth a try to leave out the crystal and see how you like it. I do a 7% IPA with 100% gladfields ale malt and it's as crisp as a frozen stick of celery.

 

[Hez]

In North Queensland, where I am from, it get's really hot at xmas time in summer. And people are always going in and out of the fridge for food. So many people put their beer in a separate eski full of ice to keep their beer as cold as possible. If you have a ****** old fridge this might be worth a go. Also chill your glass in the fridge or freezer before you pour a beer.

2.8 vols should be ok... could go to 3...

Well there is nothing wrong with crystal in an APA but it is definitely one of the factors that affects residual sugar content of beer so it's worth a try to leave out the crystal and see how you like it. I do a 7% IPA with 100% gladfields ale malt and it's as crisp as a frozen stick of celery.

jejeje

Madrid is >300km away from the sea and although we are further away from the ecuator than Sydney (Sydney = Morocco), it 's dry and we have around 40ºC in summer and -5ºC in winter! That's why we drink "cañas" (small and frozen 20cl glasses). The waiter has to be quick, because it's not uncommon to drink them all the way in one go. If you go to Spain remember: Slow/lazy waiter = bad "cañas" experience.

I love your idea, by the way. so.. 10% wheat?

 

[Droopy Brew]

It looks a solid recipe mate. You wont know yourself with temp control.
Sitting it at 18C will produce a nice clean beer, you could even go to 16 or 17C if you wanted but 18C is fine.
The malt bill is great for a pale ale.
The IBUs are a bit high I reckon. By the book, PAs top out at 40IBU. I would aim at between 35-40.

You can do this and improve the hop profile by- Remove the citra addition at 60min addition and double the amarillo so you get approx 1/3 the IBUs from this addition (about 12). Move the 15 min additions to 10 minutes. Add the 5 minute additions to your whirlpool. Again aim for about 12 IBU from 10 min and 12 IBU from whirlpool.

 

[Hez]

It looks a solid recipe mate. You wont know yourself with temp control.
Sitting it at 18C will produce a nice clean beer, you could even go to 16 or 17C if you wanted but 18C is fine.
The malt bill is great for a pale ale.
The IBUs are a bit high I reckon. By the book, PAs top out at 40IBU. I would aim at between 35-40.

You can do this and improve the hop profile by- Remove the citra addition at 60min addition and double the amarillo so you get approx 1/3 the IBUs from this addition (about 12). Move the 15 min additions to 10 minutes. Add the 5 minute additions to your whirlpool. Again aim for about 12 IBU from 10 min and 12 IBU from whirlpool.

Yes, I've been months wanting to buy the fridge! jejeje
Great! I'll re-arrange the hops following your advice.
Thanks a lot.

 

[Hez]

Ok, so this is the full finished recipe taking into account your advice.
I have already made all the calculations and it's ready to roll as soon as my fridge and controller are at home.
I've decided not to use gelatin, I will use the deltafloc tablet during the boil and I will cold crash. I'm afraid the gelatine takes all the yeast and I don't want to add more yeast for carbonating into the bottles.

About the hops, I have 62g left of Citra, I plan on buying 100g of Amarillo and use it all! Will be enough? 47g at 0' and 88g dry hopping for 10L batch (that'd be 94g at 0' and 176g dry hop for a 20L batch!) If this one is not a hop-bomb, I'll quit trying to make hoppy beers...

GRAIN:
2450g 90% Pale 2Row
270g 10% Wheat Malt
2720g

Batch 12L <- taking into account the turb
Efficiency 75%
Preboil OG 1034
OG 1052
FG 1010
5.51%
SRM 3.48


MASH:
65ºC 90'
76ºC 10'
Sparge @76ºC


HOPS:
60' 3g Amarillo 9.5%AA -> 6.95IBU
60' 2g Citra 12.8%AA -> 6.25IBU

10' 12g Amarillo 9.5%AA -> 10.08IBU
10' 10g Citra 12.8%AA -> 11.32IBU

0' 27g Amarillo 9.5%AA -> 2.70IBU (steep 30' @80º then chill)
0' 20g Citra 12.8%AA -> 2.69IBU (steep 30' @80º then chill)

DRY HOP 58g Amarillo 9.5%AA for 6 days (without hops shock)
DRY HOP 30g Citra 12.8%AA for 6 days (without hops shock)

TOTAL IBU 40


YEAST:
Safale US-05
Pitch @20ºC
5 days @18ºC
Dry Hop @20ºC for 6 days (without hops shock)
Cold crash 24h (the coldest mi fermentation-bar-fridge reach.. 3ºC ?)


CARBONATION:
3.0Vol CO2
0.33L, 22ºC, 2.9g


WATER ADJUSTMENTS:
Ca: 128 <- Palmer's recommended range 50-150
Mg: 23 <- Palmer's recommended range 10-30
Na: 16 <- Palmer's recommended range 0-150
Cl: 94 <- Palmer's recommended range 0-250
SO4: 200 <- Palmer's recommended range 50-350
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.47 <- Below .77, May enhance bitterness
Estimated pH (room temp): 5.4 <- Palmer's recommended range 5.4-5.6

 

[Dan Pratt]

^ ^ here is a handy tip for hoppy beer:

add another 3g of gypsum and 1g of calcium chloride @ 10m with the 10mins hop additions ;-)

 

[Hez]

^ ^ here is a handy tip for hoppy beer:

add another 3g of gypsum and 1g of calcium chloride @ 10m with the 10mins hop additions ;-)

Yep! @manticle told me last time and I forgot to put it in here, but i have it in my full recipe calculations. The "seasoning salts" jejeje
Thank you @Dan Pratt, nice catch!

 

[Hez]

I planned to do it on saturday, but I had to stay at home on friday and I decided to brew it. Everything went like a charm until the chilling time... I put some waterbottles into the freezer when I started brewing and they were not properly frozen when I finished so It took ages to chill to 27ºC, probably an hour.
(I use an immersion chiller and a pond pump for recirculating the water, but I not recirculate the first 2 buckets, too hot)
So I decided to put the wort into the fermenter and chill it into my fermenter fridge from 27º to 18º, but I had tickets for starwars so I pitched the yeast when I came back from the cinema.

I set my fridge to the coldest setting and the temp controller to 19º with +-1º threshold and 3' of compressor delay so it is always between 18º and 20º. It works perfectly!
Yesterday evening I open the door and the smell was ... great!

I plan on dumping half the dry hops on wednesday (5days after brewday), the other half on saturday (8 days after brewday, 3 days after first dry hopping) chill to 3ºC for 24 and bottle next thursday (13 days from brewday, 5 days after 2nd dry hopping, 8days after 1st dry hopping, 1 day after chilling). This time I will dry hop without socks, directly into the fermenter.

About the OG, I took a measurement when the wort was already into the fermenter about 30' around 27ºC and I had 1055, then before pitching the yeast at 18º 3 hours later or so I took another measurement and still was very very turbid/muddy but way less than before and I had 1054. I'm sure without the trub in suspension it would be around 1052 so all my calculations were exact. I had 75% efficiency! good! I'm happy because, now I have a fixed number here.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[Coodgee]

I can never get my wort to chill down lower than 30 degrees with my counter flow chiller in summer so I let the fridge take it from 30 to 18 before pitching the yeast. If your sanitation is good then it's fine.

 

[Hez]

It's been 5 days since brewday.

OG=1012
I tasted the beer from the hydrometer and it had a little very little tiny little hop flavour, it was dry, easy to drink, nu fuss not very flavourful... bland...

I've dry hopped 20g of amarillo and 10g of citra directly into the fermenter, no socks, no nothing. There was still a big brownish foam on top of the beer and they float on top of the foam!

I've raised the temp of my controller from 18 to 19º, so it will stay between 19 and 20ºC

I plan on doing the rest of the dry hopping in 3 days from now (32g Amarillo and 20g Citra) and leave them there for 4 days, so that's be a total of 7 days for the first dry hop and 4 days for the rest.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[Hez]

I had it chilling to 3℃ for 24h after 5days fermenting and another 7 days of dry hopping and I bottled it today.
The FG is 1006!!!! Wow! That's 5.75% abv, way higher than I wanted/expected.
I did the trick of filling the bottles with the wand, puting the cap on top but not capping until all bottles were filled (starting with the first one). It felt so stupid and useless doing that... But whatever. We will see if it makes any difference.

Dry hopping without socks, I ended up with just over two liters of trub (i calculated that in advance). I guess I took too many samples for the hydrometer and I got one bottle less than calculated, but that's alright.

The beer from the hydrometer tasted a little hoppy but not amazingly hoppy and it felt more bitter than what I expected (calculated 40ibu). The hop aroma while bottling was amazing on the other hand. If the final beer has half of that aroma I will be more than happy!

Now wait for another 2 more weeks...

 

[captain crumpet]

40 IBU at a fg of 1.010

It will be more bitter at 1.006

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I'd say you're always going to fall short in the hop department if you're not being extremely careful of o2, no matter how much you use

Ask me how I know..

I know you've been reading and contributing to that particular thread so are aware yourself now, too

Never trust bitterness until it's conditioned

 

[Hez]

I'd say you're always going to fall short in the hop department if you're not being extremely careful of o2, no matter how much you use

Ask me how I know..

I know you've been reading and contributing to that particular thread so are aware yourself now, too

Never trust bitterness until it's conditioned

Yes, I'm following that other post too, it was just in time! And I've discovered a lot of things I didn't know, like the way CO2 behaves with air is not as nice as I thought, but it looks like the only way of doing a hoppy beer is fermenting under pressure and then kegging and dry hopping directly into the a purged keg.
I don't have kegs, C02 bottles so... well if I can't do hoppy beers, then f*ck hoppy beers, while I'm here in Australia, I can always buy a pirate life and keep on making more traditional beers.

To be honest my favourite styles of beer are:
- german wheat beer / hefe-weizen / weissbier,
- belgian wheat beer / witbier / blanche
- belgian triple.

I don't know what I'm going to do next, I want to repeat both wheat beers as I was happy with them last time, but not super-happy but now I have the fermenter fridge maybe I try to make a lager! :S Although a witbier in summer... :S

 

[Hez]

Just posted it in the juicy hoppy post but this belongs here...

I couldn't help myself yesterday and I opened one of my last APA bottles.

I took it from the fermenter fridge where they are now carbonating/conditioning at 19-20º and I put it into the fridge for 2hours and into the freezer for 15-20'.

As they have been carbonating just one week and I did a 24h cold crash (shy cold crash, I know it's suposed to be done from 2 to 7 days) I thought it would be interesting to pick the very last bottled one because it has some trub and I thought this one will be already carbonated by now.
I was right, it had a nice pop, good head and lots of bubbles!

AMAZING! THIS IS THE REAL HOP JUICE! I hope all the other bottles taste like this one...
Maybe it is the combination of low co-humulone / high alpha and beta acid hops or the combination of everything: recipe and procedure, but I think this is my best beer so far and by far.

Things I've done different from my other hoppy beer attempts (some will be relevant, some not):
- No crystal malt
- A little bit of wheat
- Better PH/salts control using gypsum, calcium chloride and the new one for me: lactic acid
- Lower mash temp (64-65º)
- Lower OG
- More sparge water in proportion (I got Higher efficiency than usual, ~78%)
- Use thermapen (better control of the temperature)
- Use multiple hop socks instead of only one big hop spider for the kettle additions
- Quite big 30' hop addition at 80º (cooling naturally down to ~65º after the 30')
- Squeeze the **** out of the hop socks after chilling before pitching the yeast
- Use a fermenter fridge! <-- I think this is key, no fermenter fridge no good beer.
- Fill all bottles, put the cap on top and then cap them starting from the first filled bottle <-- I don't think this improved anything, it felt stupid.

I got exactly what I was after, it is reasonably dry with a tiny residual fruity sweetness but not too much (I've read it can be the result of the amarillo hops in big quantity), crisp, light colour, big stable head refreshing, you can't tell it is 5.8%ABV, it feels less and very very very hoppy without being too bitter, it hasn't this astringent/sharp bitterness of my previous two attempts with just Citra. I love it. I'm going to make another witbier next, but after that one I will probably make this one again and I will try to push the limit of my fermenter (15L, I do "half batches", 10L).

I can't wait to drink them all!!!! But I will try and I'll tell you in a week and a half what is a regular one like (not the last one of the batch).
I'm super happy with the results! Thank you all for your help!