Best Option For Electric Biab

[Phoney]

After mash have about 26.2L of wort at 64.5 degrees. Takes about 30 minutes to get to a vigorous boil.

You dont mash-out?

Takes me 10 - 15 mins of continuous stirring to get from ~64C to 77C. Then I wait 10 mins, then hoist the bag and by the time it stops dripping the wort is boiling (10 - 15 mins).

 

[MarkBastard]

Nope, no mash out. Scared of burning the bottom of the bag I guess.

 

[Nevalicious]

Nope, no mash out. Scared of burning the bottom of the bag I guess.

Can you not just raise the bag to bring the urn/pot etc up to mashout temps, drop the bag back in, stir it round for 10 mins, then raise again for the boil...?

This what I do. Works OK I guess :icon_cheers:

 

[MarkBastard]

Can you not just raise the bag to bring the urn/pot etc up to mashout temps, drop the bag back in, stir it round for 10 mins, then raise again for the boil...?

This what I do. Works OK I guess :icon_cheers:

I would definitely do this if I had a skyhook, but at the moment I just lift the bag and drain by hand which is such a pain in the arse I'd never consider dunking it back in again. I get consistent efficiency of about 67% into fermenter. If I knew I could get an extra 10% efficiency into fermenter maybe I'd do it but from what I understand it wouldn't be that much for just a mash out at full volume.

Dunk sparging on the other hand I may give a go if I can find a cheap smaller urn second hand. I currently drain the bag over a 19L Big W pot so I could instead dunk it into a 20L urn at mashout temps.

I dunno, my system works for me at the moment so I'm not that keen on changing it, and if I'm gunna change it it becomes a slippery slope towards 3V!

 

[tavas]

I heat my total water in the urn to mash in temp (depends on what Beersmith calculates that temp to be), then transfer the mash volume to a pre heated esky (usually around 15lts). I mash in and seal the esky, then heat the remaining water to mash out temp.

When mash is done (60mins), I transfer the bag to the urn for 10-15 mins (power off), stirring every 5 mins or so. After say 15 mins, remove bag and drain, transfer original liquor to the urn and boil. I've done it for the last 2 brews and get between 70-75% eff.

Looking back it's probably closer to 3V than pure BIAB but I didn't have to buy any additional pots etc and works for me. For a sky hook I hung a pulley off the beams in my shed and use a cleat to hold the bag.

I wasn't chasing efficiency this way, more consistency. It's definitely more consistent and efficiency has picked up. Beer no longer tastes like crap too which is also a bonus.

 

[Nevalicious]

I would definitely do this if I had a skyhook, but at the moment I just lift the bag and drain by hand which is such a pain in the arse I'd never consider dunking it back in again. I get consistent efficiency of about 67% into fermenter. If I knew I could get an extra 10% efficiency into fermenter maybe I'd do it but from what I understand it wouldn't be that much for just a mash out at full volume.

Dunk sparging on the other hand I may give a go if I can find a cheap smaller urn second hand. I currently drain the bag over a 19L Big W pot so I could instead dunk it into a 20L urn at mashout temps.

I dunno, my system works for me at the moment so I'm not that keen on changing it, and if I'm gunna change it it becomes a slippery slope towards 3V!

Fair enough. Holding it with your hands would be a definite pain in the ass...

You brew in your garage or shed?? Pergola maybe. I just bought some high tensile cord in roll form from Bunnings (around 4mm diameter) and a pack of two eyelet hooks (approx 12mm coach screw type fixing so they wont fall out of the roof!!). Drilled a pilot into the ceiling of the garage, screwed em in, run the cord through them and affix the end whilst draining to the roller door guides. Heaps easier than holding it I reckon. Cost about 10 bucks for the cord and a couple of hooks.

Again, do what works for you.

Anyways, I'm under the impression that is can improve extraction which is why I do it...

Cheers

Tyler

 

[MarkBastard]

Doesn't sound like a bad method but I guess I'd rather pay a few more dollars (if that?) in grain than change my routine to include an eski.

What I wouldn't mind knowing from a 3V brewer is will going 3V increase the brew day time? At the moment I have 30 minutes between end of mash and begin of boil. Can you mash out and sparge in 30 minutes in a typical setup? If so I may move to 3V when I have more space.

 

[Ross]

There is no requirement to mod anything on a Crown Urn & i'd recommend not touching it. The unit works perfectly out of the box. We have sold over a hundred units & not had a single complaint on its performance.
We recommend the concealed element for boiling wort, but if you prefer the exposed element, the Crown is available with either option. All Urns will work much better for mashing & boiling with some lagging arond the bowl & again would recommend this regardless of model or make you purchase.

Cheers Ross

 

[MarkBastard]

You brew in your garage or shed??

In the garage. It has a plaster ceiling and about 20cm above that a floating slab. Probably possible to screw a really long screw into the slab and have the eye below the plaster but it sounds kinda messy. I've thought about it. I know my garage door must weigh a bit so I should probably see how the brackets for that are fixed to the roof.

 

[bcp]

You dont mash-out?

Takes me 10 - 15 mins of continuous stirring to get from ~64C to 77C. Then I wait 10 mins, then hoist the bag and by the time it stops dripping the wort is boiling (10 - 15 mins).

Why do you mashout with BIAB?

"This step stops all of the enzyme action (preserving your fermentable sugar profile) and makes the grainbed and wort more fluid. For most mashes with a ratio of 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, the mashout is not needed. The grainbed will be loose enough to flow well. For a thicker mash, or a mash composed of more than 25% of wheat or oats, a mashout may be needed to prevent a Set Mash/Stuck Sparge. This is when the grain bed plugs up and no liquid will flow through it." (Palmer).

So the enzyme activity will stop as you raise to the boil. We're not going to get a stuck sparge. The grain'water ratio is even higher than he mentions here.

Do you think it gives greater efficiency? Is that based on theory or experience?

Just curious. I'm probably missing something.

 

[MarkBastard]

Do you think it gives greater efficiency? Is that based on theory or experience?

Just curious. I'm probably missing something.

I've read before that in BIAB it allows the sugars to wash off the grain more easily, where as with a normal drain they make 'stick' to the grain. I don't know if that's right or not but I remember reading it.

I would love to know if there was a real quantifiable difference in efficiency doing a mashout with BIAB. Something someone has really measured a few times.

 

[robbo5253]

There is no requirement to mod anything on a Crown Urn & i'd recommend not touching it. The unit works perfectly out of the box. We have sold over a hundred units & not had a single complaint on its performance.
We recommend the concealed element for boiling wort, but if you prefer the exposed element, the Crown is available with either option. All Urns will work much better for mashing & boiling with some lagging arond the bowl & again would recommend this regardless of model or make you purchase.

Cheers Ross

Hey Ross,
Thanks for that, do Crown do a bigger version with the 3000w element or similiar?

Cheers

Robbo

 

[MarkBastard]

Hey Ross,
Thanks for that, do Crown do a bigger version with the 3000w element or similiar?

Cheers

Robbo

Even if they don't, I get a real solid boil from mine. Granted I don't fill it up to the top and I have lagging around mine (A $5 mat). I can show you some photos and even a video of the boiling if you want, though the video doesn't do it justice. You would literally not want it to boil more vigorously.

 

[tavas]

@bcp. I don't know if what I do is technically a proper mash out. I probably have the terminology wrong. I only do it because under proper BIAB conditions I was getting varying efficiencies from batch to batch. By splitting my water and doing a dunk sparge I am now getting more consistent efficiency, and higher by about 5%.

I doubt I would get any higher by going 3V, nor will my beer taste any different and as such I won't change from what I do now. My technique requires refining beyond what euipment I use

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Search will reveal the reason for BIAB mashout - i've written this more times than I care to remember.

But answer anyway.

A mash out in BIAB has nothing to do with stopping ezymatic action. A mashout in BIAB is about completing gelatinization, adding a little extraction efficiency and avoiding any possibility of starch haze due to the higher amount of solids that make it through to the boil kettle.

And this is only really achieved if you stir the mash while you ramp it to the mashout temp. The final temp is not your actual goal - its simply where you stop. Its the physical action of stirring and the time taken to get to the point where all the enzymes are denatured that is the important bit.

If you are mashing out a BIAB by lifting the bag and heating the wort, or by dumping in boiling water - then yes, i think you probably are wasting your time because then you are just doing a "normal" mashout, which is basically pointless in BIAB - but if you take the 10 mins to stir your mash up to the temp (requires a sheild over exposed elements) you should gain a moderate increase in mash efficiency as the more stubborn starches are gelatinised and converted. You will possibly also notice an improvement in the body of your beer as they will be converted almost exclusively to dextrins rather than fermentable sugars and you can be a little more confident that any of the floury stuff that makes it into your kettle is not starchy and a potential cause of haze or microbiological instability.

You dont need to do it - but IMO it constitutes better practise if you do and it only adds a little more than 5 mins to the process altogether.

BTW - there is no real need to "rest" at the mashout temp. thats for evening out temperatures and giving enzymes a chance to denature. Something you would do if you hit mashout by infusing with hot water or decoction, and if the object of the game was to kill off the enzymes. Neither is relevant to a mashout of this sort though. Aside from burning yourself if you are using gas, there is no reason to even turn the heat off. Just hit 78, stop stirring and hoist the bag - continue on to boil without pausing.

 

[bcp]

Search will reveal the reason for BIAB mashout - i've written this more times than I care to remember.

Appreciate you taking the time again. You're my vote for most valuable poster on this site - out of a really great list of folk, actually. I've possibly even read it, but it's just something about adult learning: you mostly take in what you're ready to absorb at the time. For those who are past that point it's a pain to see it again. Thanks.

 

[MarkBastard]

Thanks for that TB. Great explanation.

My mum has a sort of cake rack that would be perfect for the bottom of my urn but she won't give it to me. I'm on the lookout for one and if I find it I'll start doing what you say.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Dont mind the first bit - i just like to whine every now and again.

Like i said, its not a "must do" but i certainly notice a difference between doing it and not doing it and i like to think of it as just another little step on the way to better consistency.

 

[MarkBastard]

You've succinctly communicated the theory, the benefits (efficiency, body, clarity), and the fact that it doesn't need to take any more time. SOLD.

 

[Nevalicious]

Need a massive cake rack for the bottom of my 60L SS Pot... Diameter 51cm... Any ideas??

Thanks Thirsty. Informative aas always. Until I find my massive cake rack or similar, I will just hoist now after mash is done, proceed to boil...

Cheers