Berliner Weisse

[Tony]

mine changed a lot in flavour after about 2 months in the fermenter. It developed a big tart sourness to ballance the sweet, low bitterness of the beer.

I added the crushed grain to the demijohn when the wort temp had dropped to 40 deg, to get the lacto bugs happening early, and just let it all sit in the demijohn for the 3 months.

These sour beers require time and patience. THey are not your regular 2 weeks grain to brain beers.

 

[joshuahardie]

Sadly my Berliner made its way straight to the drain.

Fermented at 18 degrees in a brand new (and cleaned) willow jerry.
Had such a massive acetobacter hit, it gave me a stomach ache just breathing in the fumes. Acetone smell was horrendous.

Very dissapointed, and would love some tips to avoid this again.

side question. after an infection like this, can the fermenter be used in the future for other sour beers?

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

Sadly my Berliner made its way straight to the drain.

Fermented at 18 degrees in a brand new (and cleaned) willow jerry.
Had such a massive acetobacter hit, it gave me a stomach ache just breathing in the fumes. Acetone smell was horrendous.

Very dissapointed, and would love some tips to avoid this again.

side question. after an infection like this, can the fermenter be used in the future for other sour beers?

I feel your pain .... also had a nasty infection (the unwanted type of course). I'm going to try brendanos style next time. Good luck. Got any Lacto???? CB, Nev are out of it ...
I would napisan the cube and reuse for another crack.
Cheers
BBB

 

[beerbog]

I have just put s BW into a glass carboy, Jamil's recipe, with an OG of 1029. I am using Whiye labs lacto and Euro ale yeast. I added WLP677 first, and after 2 days it is showing a nice krausen. I was just wondering, what would happen if I didn't pitch the WLP011?
Would it still ferment out with just the lacto yeast?
I'm not game to try it, I am going to pitch the Euro ale this arvo, just curious if any one has fermented one out with just lacto yeast, as it does have a good looking krausen on it. :beerbang:

 

[brettprevans]

Sadly my Berliner made its way straight to the drain.

Fermented at 18 degrees in a brand new (and cleaned) willow jerry.
Had such a massive acetobacter hit, it gave me a stomach ache just breathing in the fumes. Acetone smell was horrendous.

Very dissapointed, and would love some tips to avoid this again.

side question. after an infection like this, can the fermenter be used in the future for other sour beers?

just clean it properly. So many threads on here about cleaning equipment after infections and funky brewing. Clean it properly and its fine.

acetobacter is a piece of piss to get rid of. Its the other buggers u really need to worry about.

 

[brettprevans]

I have just put s BW into a glass carboy, Jamil's recipe, with an OG of 1029. I am using Whiye labs lacto and Euro ale yeast. I added WLP677 first, and after 2 days it is showing a nice krausen. I was just wondering, what would happen if I didn't pitch the WLP011?
Would it still ferment out with just the lacto yeast?
I'm not game to try it, I am going to pitch the Euro ale this arvo, just curious if any one has fermented one out with just lacto yeast, as it does have a good looking krausen on it. :beerbang:

regarding fermenting purely with lacto. Well think about brewing. What does yeast eat? Sugars. Now if u pitch a primary yeast that eats most of the sugar then u pitch a funky yeast that only has a little food and thus only has a little active time and a mild result. Which is why most books will say to add about 2/3 thru ferment. Unless ur using a funk blend that's designed to be used as a primary yeast (like wyeast roselare).

Now if u add something like lacto as a primary whats going to happen. U maximise the characteristics. So with lacto very tart. I once used brettc as a primary yeast on a cider and it was ultra tart. Awsome but bordering on too much. Add it 1^2 -2/3 way thru a ferment and its awsome.

 

[QldKev]

Sadly my Berliner made its way straight to the drain.

Fermented at 18 degrees in a brand new (and cleaned) willow jerry.
Had such a massive acetobacter hit, it gave me a stomach ache just breathing in the fumes. Acetone smell was horrendous.

Very dissapointed, and would love some tips to avoid this again.

side question. after an infection like this, can the fermenter be used in the future for other sour beers?

Which method did you use,
Boil or boil free
Handful of grain into fermenter or smack pack of yeast blend.

I went the safer way and done a quick boil, then used a smack pack. I was too worried about the risk of bad things happening.

 

[brettprevans]

Which method did you use,
Boil or boil free
Handful of grain into fermenter or smack pack of yeast blend.

I went the safer way and done a quick boil, then used a smack pack. I was too worried about the risk of bad things happening.

aquick 5 min boil wont hurt it. Palmer and mosher reccomed a 5-10min boil. AAlternatively bring it to boil and turn off should kill most stuff. I havent ever done a proper mash only no boil.

 

[beerbog]

regarding fermenting purely with lacto. Well think about brewing. What does yeast eat? Sugars. Now if u pitch a primary yeast that eats most of the sugar then u pitch a funky yeast that only has a little food and thus only has a little active time and a mild result. Which is why most books will say to add about 2/3 thru ferment. Unless ur using a funk blend that's designed to be used as a primary yeast (like wyeast roselare).

Now if u add something like lacto as a primary whats going to happen. U maximise the characteristics. So with lacto very tart. I once used brettc as a primary yeast on a cider and it was ultra tart. Awsome but bordering on too much. Add it 1^2 -2/3 way thru a ferment and its awsome.

I did a 15 min boil, then cubed. When I put it into the carboy, I pitched the lacto first as Jamil said if you want more sourness, pitch the lacto a couple of days ahead of the 011. If you want less sourness, then pitch them at the same time, way less sourness then pitch the lcto when the 011 has done most of its work.
The reason I asked the question was because with just the plain lacto, it did start fermenting just like a normal yeast, I didn't think it would do that.
I've also read that commercial lacto's don't really put much out in terms of sourness unless you leave them for about a year. I want to ideally pull mine out and bottle it after about a month, then let it condition. :drinks:

 

[brettprevans]

I did a 15 min boil, then cubed. When I put it into the carboy, I pitched the lacto first as Jamil said if you want more sourness, pitch the lacto a couple of days ahead of the 011. If you want less sourness, then pitch them at the same time, way less sourness then pitch the lcto when the 011 has done most of its work.
The reason I asked the question was because with just the plain lacto, it did start fermenting just like a normal yeast, I didn't think it would do that.
I've also read that commercial lacto's don't really put much out in terms of sourness unless you leave them for about a year. I want to ideally pull mine out and bottle it after about a month, then let it condition. :drinks:

straight commercial lactic acid gives a sourness but very 1 dimentional and its a bit harsh when u add lots to try and increase soureness. So nothing really beats the real deal. The only positive to lactic acid is it isnt alive so it doesnt infect your bottles kegs etc.

 

[joshuahardie]

Which method did you use,
Boil or boil free
Handful of grain into fermenter or smack pack of yeast blend.

I went the safer way and done a quick boil, then used a smack pack. I was too worried about the risk of bad things happening.

15 min boil, and I used the smack pack yeast blend.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Don't think he has posted in this yet but would be great to get Andrewqld's opinion on the BerlinaWeisse. He presented one at the gala dinner at ANHC this year and it was outstanding!!

I really should have taken notes but all the beer got the better of me.....

 

[adryargument]

2.5 months red wine barrel oak aged berliner weisse with 2KG of raspberries.
Just kegged 40L of my Weisse and then added 60L into a fermenter for further aging.

19 days in keg.
Tastes great, once its carbed up to 100-120 kpi it has quite a refreshing hit. Extra carbonation really lifts up the sourness - has quite a bite. Quite chalky.

The 60L fermenter i used as a secondary has a think layer of pellicle, very shardy and thick - breaks up like dried paint when i give it a light shake. To starve off acetobacter i just added 100g of dextrose to promote a light CO2 layer.

Will add it into 3 different bunnings fermenters with Cherries / Raspberries / Blueberries in another fortnight or two.

---------

Taste tested the wine barrel, is a straw colour with a sour bite. Seems to be aging incredible quick with the pre-existing microbes.

 

[brendanos]

Don't think he has posted in this yet but would be great to get Andrewqld's opinion on the BerlinaWeisse. He presented one at the gala dinner at ANHC this year and it was outstanding!!

I really should have taken notes but all the beer got the better of me.....

That was mine!

 

[brendanos]

I did a 15 min boil, then cubed. When I put it into the carboy, I pitched the lacto first as Jamil said if you want more sourness, pitch the lacto a couple of days ahead of the 011. If you want less sourness, then pitch them at the same time, way less sourness then pitch the lcto when the 011 has done most of its work.
The reason I asked the question was because with just the plain lacto, it did start fermenting just like a normal yeast, I didn't think it would do that.
I've also read that commercial lacto's don't really put much out in terms of sourness unless you leave them for about a year. I want to ideally pull mine out and bottle it after about a month, then let it condition. :drinks:

If you are using the Wyeast 5335 Lactobacillus it won't do anything once alcoholic fermentation has started. It is sensitive to alcohol and low pH so will pack it in as soon as your start a Sacc ferment, and only consumes a relatively small amount of simple sugars (which brewers yeast will snap up pretty quick otherwise). Pitching it into a fermented beer is a waste of money and bacteria. You could use Pediococcus, which will continue to produce a decent amount of lactic acid but will also produce other flavour compounds. Brettanomyces will continue to produce lactic acid for 12+ months.

 

[beerbog]

If you are using the Wyeast 5335 Lactobacillus it won't do anything once alcoholic fermentation has started. It is sensitive to alcohol and low pH so will pack it in as soon as your start a Sacc ferment, and only consumes a relatively small amount of simple sugars (which brewers yeast will snap up pretty quick otherwise). Pitching it into a fermented beer is a waste of money and bacteria. You could use Pediococcus, which will continue to produce a decent amount of lactic acid but will also produce other flavour compounds. Brettanomyces will continue to produce lactic acid for 12+ months.

Is WLP677 the same? :unsure:

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

That was mine!

My mistake mate, it was a long couple of days :chug:

Hats of to you, think i had three on the night!!

 

[brendanos]

Is WLP677 the same? :unsure:

I haven't used it but it sounds awesome. It is a different strain to Wyeast and produces an enzyme which allows it to ferment maltose, maltotriose and raffinose (so you may not need saccharomyces)

 

[brewtas]

I'm just drinking the first bottle of my second attempt at a Berliner. Last time I did a 15 minute boil but this time I only gave it 20 min @ 70C to pasteurise and the malt flavour is so much better. A really nicely rounded dough-like bready kind of thing. Delicious.

Mashed as normal (BIAB in an urn) with 50/50 BM pils and wheat and then when I mashed out and pulled the bag I let the wort cool to ~40C, added a handful of grain and covered the surface with gladwrap. I used a STC-1000 to keep the temp at 38C and around 30 hours later I pulled the gladwrap out, chucked a handful of hops in and heated it up to 70C to pasteurise. Chilled, fermented with WY1272 and it's drinking very nicely 3 weeks from mashing. :chug:

 

[beers]

I haven't used it but it sounds awesome. It is a different strain to Wyeast and produces an enzyme which allows it to ferment maltose, maltotriose and raffinose (so you may not need saccharomyces)

It's a very mellow & not as sharp as the wyeast strains. I've recently used it in a no boil BW. A nice big healthy fermenting pitch, with a 3 day head start before pitching Euro Ale. It has been in the bottle for close to 2 months now, & still too soft & mellow for my liking. I've since read of brewers doing 100% ferments with this strain & getting the same results. I'm thinking it would be an interesting strain to pitch along with the wyeast strain, & no sacc.