Berliner Weisse

[Tony]

I was thinking about re-using some of the slurry to make another one, but not sure if it will work as well, with the blend balance thing.

Might be worth a try though????

Thoughts ???

 

[QldKev]

I was thinking about re-using some of the slurry to make another one, but not sure if it will work as well, with the blend balance thing.

Might be worth a try though????

Thoughts ???

For the cost of the grain and hops, I'm going to do a second one on the cake. I doubt it will be the same, but it still may be nice.

It tastes awesome straight from the fermenter. Can't wait until I get enough bottles together, as I'm not game enough to let this touch my kegs.

Mine could be infected

 

[Tony]

I put mine in a keg, but i will put a big stamp on it that says............ FUNK

I saved about 100ml of running's and may chuck another one through....... it only takes a few hours and a few kg of malt.

I think i have kick started a like of sour ales......... i see adventure, infection, funk and mould the horizon

Edit:

Kev..... i just opened your photo that i thought was a UFO sighting, and that looks like a worry. Mine had a clean surface after almost 2.5 months.

Does it smell of nail polish?

 

[bruce86]

I have been keeping an eye on this thread as I want to try one of these. The only beer the missus likes. The feral brewery do a watermelon one. Any ideas of when is best to add fruit to it?

 

[Tony]

Ok.

Just had a thought.

I just made a belgian wit........ and the mash has drained about 6 liters of 1.02something runnings into a SS pot.

Im gunna put this in a 5 liter demijon with a bit of the berliner slurry to see how it goes.

Dont even need to do a brew to see if it works.

I still have a 2nd smack pack for winter........ and will let it sit for 6 months next time

cheers

 

[QldKev]

It's a ufo flying over the surface of the moon


No bad smells or tastes. It's actually very mild tasting and nice. I should keg it now to drink, 'm just not sure about allowing the Brett in my kegs.


Here's a better pic I just took. Which looks more like it does.

 

[Tony]

Oh WOW..... that looks incredible!

Very different to the actobacterial infections i have had in the past. Should be good.

Here is what i did with my Belgian Wit runnings.

 

[QldKev]

That looks yummy, I'm probably going to throw some strawberries in some of mine later.


I'm not sure if the bacteria on mine is from the Lactobacillus or the Brettanomyces, as I used the Wyeast 3191 pack. My guess would be moreso the Brettanomyces, but I'm not really sure. It's probably got another month before I'm likely to bottle/keg it up. This one is a Brett infection in it's early stages.

 

[Tony]

Yep that looks like it mate.

I went purely with the lactic sourness and no Brett.

Next beer is going to be a lambic me thinks

 

[manticle]

That looks yummy, I'm probably going to throw some strawberries in some of mine later.


I'm not sure if the bacteria on mine is from the Lactobacillus or the Brettanomyces, as I used the Wyeast 3191 pack. My guess would be moreso the Brettanomyces, but I'm not really sure. It's probably got another month before I'm likely to bottle/keg it up. This one is a Brett infection in it's early stages.

Looks similar to the pellicles I've had on my brett beers although most of those have been made with a blend too. Should protect the beer from oxidation etc.

 

[stux]

Looks like my standard house infection

All SWMBOs damn fruit trees I think.

Funny thing is, I don't like my accidental "bretty sours", but I have a large group of friends who do...

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Just put down my first berliner on the weekend. This thread was a great help. Had some equipment issues and ended up having to take my mash out and dumping the mash in water. Even though it had only mashed in at 38c it had a decent effect on my eff. Was expecting 1034 and got 1028. Did a 10 min boil for old times sake.

I've pitched a started lacto which is going nuts and the berliner blend will be going in in a couple days. Yay!

When I bottle this one I am going to rack a stronger (1045 maybe) berliner onto the cake and see what happens.

Anyways, some questions.

• How long do you guys recommend leaving it? I want it pretty sour and I am fermenting in a keg so oxidation isn't that much of a problem. I was thinking 3 or even more months to get it mega sour, but don't want to wait that long if I don't have to. I know I've seen people talk normal fermentation times early in this thread.
  
• I often see people say 'fresh yeast at bottling' or in this case 'fresh lacto and yeast at bottling'. How is that done? A whole vial mixed in a la bulk priming? One grain of dried yeast per bottle? (LOL)
  
• Clarity - How much clarity shift do you guys see by the end of the ferment? I know it's a cloudy beer anyway, but the unboiled/barely boiled wort was a colour I'd not normally like to see in my beer - though seeing Tony's fruit photo above suggests its probably ok!

 

[raven19]

Re fresh yeast at bottling - I would use some ale yeast slurry along with your priming sugar to ensure proper bottle carbonation.

 

[adryargument]

Mines kicking at 39 days in - i did a taster at 37 days and it was clean dry and mid acidic with a mild-mid sourness - quite chalky. (This is comparing it to the excessive amount of sours i had in Belgium)

One of the best beers i have brewed. Thank god i have 100L of it.
I'll leave it for another 2 months while i am overseas.

Tony: using slurry has been proven to make many awesome beers, 100% brett or lacto can be used. I'm planning to pitch another 100L into my barrel as soon as its emptied. Should raise the sourness a few notches from what i have read, however lacto kills itself at a certain sourness.

I think i need to add some Pediococcus to reach those lambic levels.

Note the raspberries are near not-noticable in mine - maybe a few more months.
It is a nice pink colour - maybe from the wine barrel :/ slight tannins bringing up the rear however they meld quite nice with the sourness.

Edit: My blowoff 25L glass demijohn has a wonderful funk layer. Its like powdered snow. Should have a picture somewhere... Searching...

Yes its an ice cube in my sample....

 

[joshuahardie]

I have two BW going at the moment

One with Wyeast 3191 and the other recultured from dregs of the Billy Ray Citrus.

The 3191 is moving slowly and might be a bit cold at 18 degrees. It dropped 4 points in a week
The BRC was sitting at 24 degrees and has exploded with activity.

As I am fermenting in Jerrycans I was going to opt for a shorter fermentation cycle as my last lot of sour beers in plastic had too much Acetobacter influence.

Does anyone have a successful base fermentation schedule, or is it a just keep tasting it and see scenerio?

 

[tiprya]

My BW seems to be stuck at around 3.9 pH. A good BW should be 3.3-3.5.

It is around 2.5 months old. Is the answer just more time?

I'm also fermenting in a jerry can - should I get it into bottles to age/sour further?

 

[Goldenchild]

I have two BW going at the moment

One with Wyeast 3191 and the other recultured from dregs of the Billy Ray Citrus.

The 3191 is moving slowly and might be a bit cold at 18 degrees. It dropped 4 points in a week
The BRC was sitting at 24 degrees and has exploded with activity.

As I am fermenting in Jerrycans I was going to opt for a shorter fermentation cycle as my last lot of sour beers in plastic had too much Acetobacter influence.

Does anyone have a successful base fermentation schedule, or is it a just keep tasting it and see scenerio?

Good to hear you put down the split batch with those dregs josh
My batch with the dregs was also explosive pretty sure I read it was a wheat sach strain in it so kicks off and ferments quick as appose to the Berliner blend which has a German ale(happily stand corrected).

As for ferment schedule I remember the 3191 was still going 2 weeks after the brc. Pretty sure I kegged first one around 5-6weeks.bulk primed and left in the keg for over a month can't remember exactly

Ps. Have a chat to Duane I ordered in some glass carboys and pretty sure he has one left.

 

[Goldenchild]

I'm also fermenting in a jerry can - should I get it into bottles to age/sour further?

If it isn't showing signs of oxidisation then i'd leave it for another few weeks let the lactose do it's thing. Not sure where I read it but It said 3 months a good estimate to when it should be done.

 

[Hadrian]

I've got a Berliner in a fermenter at the moment at ~40deg with some fresh unmashed grain to inoculate with lacto...
Had a look this afternoon and it has produced heaps of gas which smells pretty bad. ( stupidly forgot to add an airlock so the build up of gas has blown up the fermenter like a football.
I'm concerned about the bad smell but the taste is not offensive. I'm planning to add White labs berliner weiss blend tomorrow.

Should I ditch this or is the smell okay?

 

[pmastello]

Ps. Have a chat to Duane I ordered in some glass carboys and pretty sure he has one left.

Too late, I got the last one on Saturday!
I'm sure he'll get some more though if you ask him - and he remembers.

 

[brendanos]

Other than watching Jess Caudhill's presentations, I would recommend:

50% pils malt
45% wheat malt
5% acidulated

Mash at 60 - 68 (I don't think it is critical)
Mash hop 1 plug old low alpha hops
Lauter and raise to 100C but don't boil
Target OG <1.030
Chill to 45C
Ferment with 5335 2 - 7 days at 40 - 45C
Chill to 20C and ferment with 1007 or US05
After primary add Brett (I have had good results with all strains) and condition for a few months before bottling
Bottle in champagne bottles with loads of sugar (10 - 12g/L)
Wait 6 - 12 months
Enjoy!

FWIW I won best wheat beer at the PRBS 3 years in a row with 3 different batches, won best farmhouse at AABC 2010 and 2nd place in 2011.

Entering it in comps has been a rollercoaster - some times I have expected beer of show and scored less than 20, other times scoring 47 and 48. It is a hard style to judge - especially for inexperienced judges or those lacking confidence. You can carbonate it to within an inch of it's life and by the time it reaches the judges it will have no head and be marked down for "lacking stylistic characteristics". You can't win em all!

Patience is key to this style. Some of mine have tasted pretty foul when young (medicinal, smokey, sulphury) - just wait it out. They are generally best once they have dropped clear, which may take forever, but it is worth the wait.

 

[joshuahardie]

What FG are people getting with these.

Both my BW's mentioned in a previous post have now dropped to 1004, the Wyeast blend is showing some subtle lacto notes, and tastes like a light witbier.
The Billy Ray Citrus yeast version is not showing much tartness/sourness yet.

How long are people leaving these beers in primary fermentaiton?
Is anyone doing a secondary?
and lastly, with these lacto blends, is everyone retiring these plastic fermenters for sours only, or can lacto be cleaned out of plastic effectivly?

 

[QldKev]

What FG are people getting with these.

Both my BW's mentioned in a previous post have now dropped to 1004, the Wyeast blend is showing some subtle lacto notes, and tastes like a light witbier.
The Billy Ray Citrus yeast version is not showing much tartness/sourness yet.

How long are people leaving these beers in primary fermentaiton?
Is anyone doing a secondary?
and lastly, with these lacto blends, is everyone retiring these plastic fermenters for sours only, or can lacto be cleaned out of plastic effectivly?

Not sure where mine currently is at, but BeerSmith shows 1.007 FG, I'm guessing it would drop more than that.
Mine is still in the primary fermenter, since 13-Nov-2012
None of beer beers get secondary anymore (since about 5 years ago)
My fermenter is marked so a normal beer will never be made in it again. Also, I will be bottling it and not kegging.

 

[joshuahardie]

I am getting a very strong acetone smell coming from my BW.
I fermented at 18 degreess for a week, then left it at ambient after that.
I am also fermenting in a willow jerry can if it makes any difference.

General research tells me that nail polish remover smells are the result of high ferments, or poor quality plastics, but that is with a normal sach yeast.

Does that rule ring true for lacto beers?

 

[raven19]

Plastic smells could be a wild yeast infection too.

 

[joshuahardie]

Totally could be that.
It is fermenting next to a lambic

However the lambic does not have the same smell.

But certainly by the fact that these two fermenters are side by side, it could of been cross contamination, even though I thought my process was solid at the time.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

Going for my first BW (thanks Florian).

2 questions

1 - Got a wyeast BW pack. Can i split this as you usually would???? What would you do a starter with, some cooled BW wort from the batch?

2 - The thought of bottling makes me feel sad and depressed. I have PET bottles but would rather keg. I understand this needs a big whack of CO2. Anybody done it and any problems???

After a fair bit of reading I'm going for:

Berliner Weisse (23L)
49% wey pils
49% wey wheat
2% acid

Step mash - 1.5hr @ 55C, 1 hr @ 65C, 15mins 78C mashout

Handfull of wey pils grain in the 65C mash

No boil - still tossing up if I'll do a decoction.

Hall Mittlefrusch to 10 IBU's in mash

Wyeast BW @ 20C and ramp to 24C after 3-4 days

Any help appreciated
Cheers
BBB

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

EPIC FAIL - Infection ......... The wyeast BW pack was from jun 2012 - tried it on a stir plate for 12 hours. The starter did move a bit on the refracto so I thought there was life but helaas ........... down the *******....
Next one I'll try Brendanos's procedure.
Cheers
BBB

 

[Tony]

All i did with mine was mash and drain strait to the fermenter and tip in the pack of berliner weise blend that failed to swell

It took about 5 weeks to finnish fermenting and went down to 1.003 or so from memory.

i also chucked in a handfull of freshly cracked weyermann pilsner malt, pushed under the stairs and let it rot for 3 months

I filled 5 champagne bottles to age. No fresh yeast, just some dex for carb.

The corks have pushed up on the wire cages and they are slowly settling out clear so i assume they are carbed.

We will see come comp time

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

Serious horseblanket and vegetable soup aroma's ......... I didnt taste it but I can taste it now if you know what I mean - the smell permeates....
the laundry started to get a whiff so it was time to move it along.
I threw some uncracked grain in the mash as well Tony......
Chalk one up too experience.
Cube down, cube down people
cheers
BBB