Belgian Super Dark Strong Ale

[j1gsaw]

Hey all.
After annoying Rossco on the phone for tips and ideas this morning, i/we have come up with this evil idea. (LOL, i can hear Ross already.. ******** WE DID! HAHA)

Based on a Jamil recipe, Im going to feed the beer for 10 days on a mix of Belgian Dark candi sugar and Demerara sugar. Few things altered.
20L batch

6.8kg Dingeman Pils
450g Aromatic
1.360kg Munich 1
450g caramunich 1
450g Special B
225g wheat
225g melanoiden
450g Dem sugar

62g Hallatuer Mitt. 90m

wyeast trappist high grav 2500ml starter.

OG ?? good question.... thinking around 1.090 / 1.100 approx
Will ferment at 18/20deg.
At 8 days into primary ferm, I will bring to ambient room temp and start the following:

Day 8- 250ml Bel dark Candi sugar
9- 280g Dem sugar
10- 250ml Bel sugar
11- 280g Dem sugar
12- 280g Dem sugar
13- 280g Dem sugar + 100g Turbo distillers yeast + 40g Hall Mitt dry hop
14- 280g Dem sugar
15- 280g Dem sugar
16- 250ml Bel sugar
17- 280g Dem sugar
18- 250ml Bel sugar (final edition)

Beer with sit on primary for a month or so to settle out, then cold conditioned for couple of weeks.
Will then transfer to secondary and add a packet of champagne yeast or us-o5, wait 3 days, then bottle.
Unsure if i will carb this beer, though perhaps a half dose. Hope to achieve 15% alc "ish".

Ross also told me that he wants first taste test... :lol: errrr.....

 

[j1gsaw]

i wonder if its possible to add fresh wort to this beer from a seperate brew,
i.e.. if i made another high gravity belgian ale, and once i cooled the wort, say i add a few litres to the 3/4 fermented big brew, and topped up with some more yeast... that should work? keep the process churning? Might try and crack the 20% alc mark.
And truth be known, its probably a better option then just adding more and more sugar, which could deliver cidery/off taste.

 

[benno1973]

Doesn't the 3787 Trappist Yeast have an alc tolerance of around 12%? How do you get higher without the yeast giving out?

 

[j1gsaw]

Doesn't the 3787 Trappist Yeast have an alc tolerance of around 12%? How do you get higher without the yeast giving out?

Thats why the distillers turbo yeast goes it mate.
I just want the trappist to impart that flavour at the start.

 

[benno1973]

Great, yep, never read that part!

 

[sinkas]

How fermentalble is demarera, I think there are prorabably a fair few caramel like flavours in it that will leave a lot behind, go with straight candy sugar

 

[C_west]

Will be interesting to see how a single 90 Min hop addition copes with all those fermentables, even though this style isnt hop driven it might turn out a bit sweet even with that distillers yeast?

Clearly the only way to find out is for you to send me a bottle when its done

 

[dent]

You might want to calculate out how sweet (unfermentable) it will actually be in the end.

Probably you'd need to condition this for months and months before it stops tasting crap too.

 

[dans6401]

Make sure you post back here when you're done. Sounds interesting.
Was talking to a guy from Grand Ridge as i sampled one of their super shines, and he was saying that they keep adding more malt into the fermentation for months to bump up the alc to 11%. They probably add extra yeast etc.... He may have even told me but it was the last sample i had for the night and for some reason i can't remember.

 

[j1gsaw]

It turns out i will be doing 10 - 50ml additions of dark belgian candi sugar.

 

[j1gsaw]

You might want to calculate out how sweet (unfermentable) it will actually be in the end.

Probably you'd need to condition this for months and months before it stops tasting crap too.

Why would it taste crap?
Cant see much being left unfermented after the turbo yeast eats through it.
But yeah, will be aged for a good while.

 

[leiothrix]

Perhaps you might want to use EC-1118 (i.e. champagne yeast) instead of the turbo yeast.

From what I understand the turbo's are a mix of yeast, buffers and nutrients. Also, they tend to taste crap.

EC-1118 has a tolerance of 18% and has a neutral flavour.

Rob.

 

[bradsbrew]

Hey Jiggy why are you waiting until day 8 to start feeding the belgian syrup? Also wait FG are you aiming for?

Brad

 

[DUANNE]

do you really need the turbo yeast? im pretty sure using incremental feeding that almost any yeast can go up to 20+ abv. just a matter of giving it nice and slow feeds.not sure were i heard this though but sounds reasonable to me.im sure though that you would need to reseed to get good bottle carb though.

 

[DKS]

All power to you jigsaw but seems like a marathon effort here mate. What is your ultimate goal?.
(I'm liking it to the Babbs brew cask project. Continuous for years of tasty pleasure for all to share.)
OR , are you making one extra special, no expense or effort spared batch? , or just experimenting?
Daz

 

[j1gsaw]

This beer is just an experiment, no cost considered etc.
I just want to see how far i can stretch the levels of alc% and still have it drinkable.

The recipe above is about OG 1.100 before sugar feedings, and i like the idea of the turbo yeast to bring it right down and handle the huge alc.
Champagne yeast is of course considered, but i was thinking that for bottle conditioning yeast.
FG id like to see around 1030.. especially if i can get a OG of 1.200 etc at the end of the day. That should give me a 20% ish brew, give or take.
Im still tossing up on the idea of using turbo yeast, but i figure if the trappist high grav yeast has already made its post in primary ferment, then no off flavours from the turbo yeast will be emitted, it will just pull the beer right down.
I will only go about 50-100g of turbo yeast, not the entire packet, just enough to see some action kick off and do the job.

 

[dgilks]

I agree with the suggestions above to use a Champagne yeast instead of the Turbo. I have never heard of brewers using Turbo yeasts and expecting anything close to a good result. On the other hand, Champagne yeasts have high alcohol tolerance, a proven track record and are cheap to boot. IMO, if you have a dirty yeast (like a Turbo) any fermentation it does will put out off flavours. While those off flavours may be less if most of the fermentation is done by the Trappist yeast, there will nonetheless be off flavours. Don't risk it, use a yeast with a track record in high gravity brewing.

 

[j1gsaw]

I agree with the suggestions above to use a Champagne yeast instead of the Turbo. I have never heard of brewers using Turbo yeasts and expecting anything close to a good result. On the other hand, Champagne yeasts have high alcohol tolerance, a proven track record and are cheap to boot. IMO, if you have a dirty yeast (like a Turbo) any fermentation it does will put out off flavours. While those off flavours may be less if most of the fermentation is done by the Trappist yeast, there will nonetheless be off flavours. Don't risk it, use a yeast with a track record in high gravity brewing.

But champagne yeast are proven to dry right out, the last thing i want is a 20% beer that is dry like asahi!
I need some residual sweetness to balance out. Maybe the turbo will do that too.. i dunno.
Im sure whatever path i go will be a suck it and see effort.. (like chappo's brewday) HAHAHA

 

[bradsbrew]

Man that is a huge starter and with all that feeding I reckon the 3787 will dry it out enough but I have no idea with a beer of that OG. But I have been able to dry big beers out using double and triple sugar additions. I have never used the dema sugar, is it possible to invert it??

Brad

 

[winkle]

Perhaps you might want to use EC-1118 (i.e. champagne yeast) instead of the turbo yeast.

From what I understand the turbo's are a mix of yeast, buffers and nutrients. Also, they tend to taste crap.

EC-1118 has a tolerance of 18% and has a neutral flavour.

Rob.

+1 EC-1118 (i.e. champagne yeast), I can't see the turbo yeast giving you anything but grief (and a pile of milky smelly alcohol)