Belgian Recipes Help

[pmolou]

So what do you think of my recipe idea's/suggestions more than welcome
ps. i have abbeyII 1762, lambic blend, us-05, belgian 1388
80 grams of saaz, 80 grams of styrian goldings, 40g of nelson sauvin
and heaps of malt extract

Moloughneys Chai Devil #2 (09)

1.5L Liquid Malt Extract
1.5L Liquid Wheat Malt Extract
300grams Brown Sugar

20grams Nelson Sauvin @60 minutes
20grams Saaz @10 minutes
20grams Styrian Goldings @10 minutes


IBU 34

Spice Additions:


0.5 teaspoons Nutmeg
0.5 teaspoons Cinnamon
0.5 teaspoons Cardamom
2 black tea bags

Belgian Strong Ale 1338

Estimated OG 1.052



AND then going to re-use yeast cake for another belgian not sure what type though any suggestions this is what i first thought of but kinda wanna get a higher OG but not add another tub of malt extract cos then id be making a quadrippel or something and that could turn out way to estery especially with the heat in melb atm

Moloughneys Devil #3 (09)

1.5L Liquid Malt Extract
1.5L Liquid Wheat Malt Extract
800grams Mixed Sugars

10grams Nelson Sauvin @60 minutes
40grams Saaz @60 minutes
10grams Nelson @10 minutes

Spice Additions:
1 teaspoon coriander
0.25 teaspoon ginger
0.25 teaspoon pepper


IBU 34


OG 1.061

 

[pmolou]

anyone...

all i'm really looking for is advice on the spice additions in quantity and what types go well together
and how much sugar is alright was now thinking of adding 1kg in the 2nd brew

 

[haysie]

the spices look complicated lou, pepper in a beer may work? i`ll be darned if i throw it in 20 ltrs though, after getting steered with some advice re temps and step temps of some belgian yeasts, my beers improved 5 fold, step feeding ( i cant think of the correct word) adding my candi most times infused with a little spices improved and dried it more. I am infinity and away from making the "perfect" but the last thing I would want would be a cinnamon scroll type drink. My first attempt was an ale (vic case swap) very ordinary since being in the bottle 3+months, yet same yeast, same hops (different ibus etc etc) tweaking the grain bill, tweaking temps has made a couple very good saisons. Try not over do those spice additions though, nelson sauvin would have the style police knocking on your door, saaz would be far more "spice". My 2 bobs.
Cheers

 

[kevo]

I'm not belgian expert either, but my understanding is that with good temp control you'll get alot of spiciness from you belgian yeast without adding a single spice.

Start cool, about 20C perhaps and let it warm up in the last third of your ferment.

 

[MartinS]

So what do you think of my recipe idea's/suggestions more than welcome
ps. i have abbeyII 1762, lambic blend, us-05, belgian 1388

As others have suggested, drop the spices.

When working with a new style, it's best to keep things as simple as possible. Even with the sugars, I'd suggest keeping it simple - if you can't get your hands on any candi sugar, just stick with dex until you've got more of a feel for the style.

Belgian yeasts are versatile yeasts. They'll almost always give out a spicy note, but the temperature you ferment at can completely change the profile of the beer. Ferment cool (down around 18-20) for an earthy/phenolic profile; ferment warm (up around 24-26) for a fruity profile (check your yeast pack for its actual range though). Some of the Belgian brewers apparently start it cool, and let it warm as fermentation progresses.

 

[Trent]

Pmolou
Both those recipes look fine, it is always best not to overdo spices, as already pointed out, I think that 1/2 a tespoon of each in the Chai Devil should be about right, but if you drop it back to 1/4 tsp each, you can always add more later after a little "gravity check" sample.
Just really piping in to say that Kevo is right, the belgian yeasts usually add a good amount of spiciness, but I would definitely pitch warmer than 20, that will basically give you a fairly clean ester profile compared to pitching at 22 or 23 (where I usually pitch my belgians). I keep it at 23 for 2 or 3 days and then let it run where it wants to after that, especially with the higher gravity beers.
A mix of sugars isnt usually necessary, I would just stick with white sugar for your second beer, which I usually add as 2 separate feeedings (after melting in water on the stove) on day 2 and day 3.
HTH
Trent

 

[bconnery]

Belgian yeasts do add spiciness, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't add spices, Belgian brewers do after all!

Spice amounts are tricky but less is always a good starting point as has been said.
You can always add a little using a tea in secondary if they seem way too small after primary, but start with some small additions, I don't think any of the amounts listed are too large, and then let them work in conjunction with the yeast.

 

[PostModern]

I'd go plain old white sugar unless you're sure you want molasses in there. Doesn't seem to gel with Belgian brewing. Caramelise some white sugar if you want that flavour. Brown sugar from the store is white sugar blended with molasses, afaik.

 

[pmolou]

thanks for all the replys guys but i gave up hope on the thread and brewed about 3 hours ago just checking it now

i've already brewed the first one but for the second i will add 1/4 teaspoons of spoces as off a delerium clone....
and make my own invert sugar and ferment from 18-27 as the duvel brewers do

but as for my first one i accdently added double the brown sugar ( :angry: ) compliments of my dodgy scales and as i havent brewed for around 6 months i didnt have anyhop socks left so used this material and well to skip the story i now have hops loose throughout my brew so thanks for all ur help but now i need more haha
What have people done when hops got loose in there fermentor??

and the reason for the chai's belgian ingrediants is chai latte's which i9 love are made using those ingrediants was simply an idea and i guess ill see how it works in a beer

THanks all and hopefully u can help me with the hops problem

 

[scott_penno]

Hi pmolou,

The loose hops will fall to the bottom of the fermenter so you shouldn't have any problems there. I'd be interested to hear how this goes as a Belgian ale is on my list of beers to brew...

sap.

 

[haysie]

What have people done when hops got loose in there fermentor??


THanks all and hopefully u can help me with the hops problem

dry hop some more, crash chill, you wont see it.

 

[pmolou]

dry hop some more, crash chill, you wont see it.

cheers mate

 

[Tanga]

I too will be interested in seeing how this turns out. Love a good Chai Latte myself.

 

[pmolou]

i'll keep u posted then its looking pretty good atm has gone from 18-26c in 4 days and has quite a hoppy smell outta the fermentor

 

[pmolou]

okay so probably one of my best beers yet bottled today and had a taste test
it fermented from 18c-29c over a week then let it be so the hops could drop out
quite alot of finishing hops cant taste any spices (other than saaz) but pick up some esters

racked 10L into a cube and considering whether to add some of my lambic dregs to it or add some hibiscus mix (yes i like experimenting with spices and herbs) as i think it'll go well

but i do suggest to anyone considewring making a chai beer that you should buy the chai mix from T2 and maybe put a cup or two of it insecondry as the T2 stuff is the real deal and the smell is amazing :icon_drool2:

 

[pmolou]

so had a taste ou of the bottle last night by far my best drop so far... had a nice hop bitterness and flavour but not overpowering with a large amount of well not sure if they were esters but yeast driven flavours which were amazing and no taste of chai at all though it may be in there somewhere i may not be able to recognise it over the strong yeast driven flavours and had good belgian lace

had to post it im excited my best beer sofar considering whether to add more sugarsa to the 10litres i racked to get a higher abv though dont wanna ruin the beer at the same time

 

[bindi]

so had a taste ou of the bottle last night by far my best drop so far... had a nice hop bitterness and flavour but not overpowering with a large amount of well not sure if they were esters but yeast driven flavours which were amazing and no taste of chai at all though it may be in there somewhere i may not be able to recognise it over the strong yeast driven flavours and had good belgian lace

had to post it im excited my best beer sofar considering whether to add more sugarsa to the 10litres i racked to get a higher abv though dont wanna ruin the beer at the same time

It's a good beer you say, so DON'T add a thing just enjoy.
Well done, when you first posed the recipe I thought "spice, why all the spices, what yeast are you using?" if you can pick the spice you used too much.

 

[pmolou]

It's a good beer you say, so DON'T add a thing just enjoy.
Well done, when you first posed the recipe I thought "spice, why all the spices, what yeast are you using?" if you can pick the spice you used too much.

thanks great advice, just of curiosity if i put this in a comp say the beerfest one would i enter it in specialty belgian or just the belgian blond catorgory because u cant pick the spices

ps. it was 1338 the duvel one