Beersmith... I'm Totally Confused

[bonj]

Beersmith has me totally confused.

I just did my 3rd AG today, and I'm confused by the boil-off and batch size figures.

When I use the boiloff tool, I put in 27L boil volume, then I fiddle with the percentage, until I get my final volume, which is 21L. That gives me a figure of 14.8% boiloff.

Now if I put that into my equipment profile, and use that in a recipe, it gives me the boil volume. But if I set "loss to trub and cooler" to zero as everyone seems to recommend, and adjust my batch size to account for the losses, it changes the boil volume to something like 35L, which is wrong. grrr

What's going on here?

And don't even get me started on efficiency calculations....

 

[Stuster]

Go to Tools/Options and click the box Fix Boil Volume based on Equipment. Does that help?

 

[bonj]

Hey Stuster,

Thanks for the reply. That option was already checked, and it still tells me to boil 34L.

 

[Jye]

Bonj I think your going about this the wrong way.

You are right to set your losses to zero, then set your batch size to 'volume in the fermenter' + 'losses'.

Now you want your pre-boil volume to be equal to your 'batch size' + 'boil off' (you should now know what your boil-off is from previous batches), and you set your pre-boil by adjusting the boil-off rate.

If you have anymore questions also post you batch size, losses to trub and boil-off volume. Now what do you want to know about efficiency.

 

[bonj]

So what you're saying is to trust the program, and it will give me what I want.

Now, the volumes are dependent on efficiency... correct?

I understand how to work out the efficiency, but what I don't know is the "theoretical maximum" extract per kg of grain. I understand that this varies by type of malt and vendor, but is there an average figure that people use?
The only figures I can find are "between 240 and 260"

This is the formula I am using:
((litres of wort * (1-gravity) / kg of grain) / "between 240 and 260") * 100

How can I pinpoint a brewhouse efficiency if it varies so much? Do I just pick a figure in the middle (250) and accept any deviation? Do I have multiple calibrations for different malts?

edit: spelling

 

[bonj]

I'm also (more) confused about sparging. (I batch sparge) I understand that if I change the efficiency, beersmith changes the sparge volume, but it also changes the sparge volume if I edit the equipment to add water to the kettle. Why? Surely the sparge volume should be constant for a constant malt weight?

 

[AndrewQLD]

I'm also (more) confused about sparging. (I batch sparge) I understand that if I change the efficiency, beersmith changes the sparge volume, but it also changes the sparge volume if I edit the equipment to add water to the kettle. Why? Surely the sparge volume should be constant for a constant malt weight?

not if you are adding more water to the kettle, beersmith will take that into account as total water used and decrease your sparge volume accordingly.
Another thing to take into consideration when using the boil off tool, it doesn't calculate the 4% shrinkage when the wort cools, your equipment settings do.

And have you checked the box "set boil volume based on equipment" in the recipe view?
Not sure if this helps but here are my equipment settings



Cheers
Andrew

 

[Jye]

So what you're saying is to trust the program, and it will give me what I want.

Yep, if you calculate the volumes manually they should turn out the same.

Now, the volumes are dependent on efficiency... correct?

No, Changing the efficiency in Beersmith will just alter your OG. The only volume efficiency can alter is your total water required but not your sparge or final volume. If you increase or decrease the efficiency then your grain bill will increase or decrease requiring you to add more or less water to account for the absorption in the mash. After the mash your pre-boil and following volumes will be the same.

I understand how to work out the efficiency, but what I don't know is the "theoretical maximum" extract per kg of grain. I understand that this varies by type of malt and vendor, but is there an average figure that people use?
The only figures I can find are "between 240 and 260"

This is the formula I am using:
((litres of wort * (1-gravity) / kg of grain) / "between 240 and 260") * 100

How can I pinpoint a brewhouse efficiency if it varies so much? Do I just pick a figure in the middle (250) and accept any deviation? Do I have multiple calibrations for different malts?

Potential yield is nearly the same for every base malt but varies more for the specialty malts and it is easier to let Beersmith handle the calculations. Just enter your efficiency and alter your grain bill to get the required OG. When you have learnt your system the only time efficiency will change is with smaller and larger grain bills and this is due to the grain being rinsed with more of less water per kg of grain.

I'm also (more) confused about sparging. (I batch sparge) I understand that if I change the efficiency, beersmith changes the sparge volume, but it also changes the sparge volume if I edit the equipment to add water to the kettle. Why? Surely the sparge volume should be constant for a constant malt weight?

I dont know whats happening but changing the eff shouldnt change the sparge volume, but adding some top up water to reach your final volume will decrease the amount of sparge water. Just set the top up volume to zero since you have the room for a full boil.

I havent figured out how to properly setup Beersmith for batch sparging and I dont even think it can, but it is so easy to do you dont need it to tell you what the sparge volumes are. For example, let say you are using 5kg of grain and need a pre-boil of 30L. Start with 35L in the HLT and mash in with a ratio of 3 L/kg, this leaves you with 20L in the HLT. For the first sparge you want to add another 5L to the mash so the runoff will be 15L, then add the last 15L from the HLT for the second sparge.

Hope this helps Bonj

 

[bonj]

Thanks heaps Jye for your reply. That is pretty much the same thing Ross told me when I called him this morning, so I think I might have it organised in my head now. I have a few changes to make for my next brew, as well as a new mash paddle (thanks Ross for the lead) as I snapped my plastic one stirring the mash yesterday. I also splashed out for a refractometer which I've been wanting for a while, and should stop me running inside to a sink full of iced water and the hydrometer.

On a different note, my 2 3/4 year old daughter just got the shock of her life when she pulled on one of the taps on my newly completed chest-freezer conversion... :lol:

 

[dicko]

MMMMM!!!!

Sounds like a job for -

PROMASH

:lol: Dicko now ducks for cover! :lol:

Cheers

 

[Tony]

MMMMM!!!!

Sounds like a job for -

PROMASH

:lol: Dicko now ducks for cover! :lol:

Cheers

I second the motion!

PROMASH!!!

I had a go at beersmith and found it to be less user friendly, but thats just my opinion.

(ducks for cover behind dicko) :lol:

cheers

 

[Hargie]

...promash......not ducking....

 

[Tony]

hehe

 

[matti]

Tried both and PROMASH win.
Though I still reckon Beer smith is not as bad tool.
Both program suck if you don't know what you are doing, Like Me lol.

SO
I am going to have pen and paper next brew and write down all thing as per usual and calculate boil off, efficiencies etc etc and punch that into to promash and adjust according to my methods and equipment.

The program is only there to give you and idea and a place to store recipes and inventory.
You have to tweak to you own needs.
Gonna have play now actually
Bla bla bla
Add boi

 

[Maxt]

Where did the other posts on this topic disappear to?