Bavarian Weissbier Tips

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Osangar

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found a hack that turned out great.

after my last weizen, I saved the yeast slurry; then repitched it into a dampfbier made from 4kg Munich 2 (weyermann) and 1 kg vienna, 10IBU hops at 40min - dam, what a great result. one to keep in the rotation from now on.
 

Osangar

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interesting

ill report back when it arrives and I brew with it.

ok, so my WLP351yeast experiment is about halfway though. fermentation starting at 18, then raise to 22, then back to 18 in the primary; followed by the bottle at 18 for a week

the beer has nothing interesting about it at all. it's a good beer, but not 'amazing' like Schneider yeast, or 3068.

all in all, not a yeast I will buy again.
 

TheAussieBrewer

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ok, so my WLP351yeast experiment is about halfway though. fermentation starting at 18, then raise to 22, then back to 18 in the primary; followed by the bottle at 18 for a week

the beer has nothing interesting about it at all. it's a good beer, but not 'amazing' like Schneider yeast, or 3068.

all in all, not a yeast I will buy again.
I found the same thing when I trialed it when I couldn't get WLP300. I save a few vials of yeast and make a starter for the next Hefe brew.
 

Cloud Surfer

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Has anyone experimented with dextrose additions in their weissbier? It adds to the banana character. But on the flip side you get a slightly lower FG. I’m drinking my Hefe alongside the Weihenstephaner I’ve tried copying, and I like the fuller mouthfeel from the Weihenstephaner.

I used 3% dextrose, but I might reduce that to 2% and up the fermentation temperature 1C next time.

For sure the Weihenstephaner 14IBU is a lot less than my 14IBU. Mine has detectable bitterness that’s absent in the Weihenstephaner. I’ll aim for 10IBU next time which should be a better match.
 

MHB

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One of my favourite beers
Having a look at the website from Weihenstephan they say, OG 12.7oP or 1.0508 (1.051), alcohol 5.7% from which we can deduce an FG of 1.0103 (well if you can measure the 0.0003) call it 1.010

Apparent attenuation is 79.7% (call it 80%) which is a bit higher than you would expect from say W 3068. Assuming your wort isn’t super fermentable adding a bit (<5%) of dextrose shouldn’t have much effect on where the beer pulls up, it will have a big effect on the banana aroma/flavour given you don’t overpitch or brew way too cool.

I would be tempted to stay at or around 14 IBU, go easy on the Sulphate if you are adding any and get your bitterness from one of the noble hops, My go to is Hallertau Mittlefrüh, the same bitterness from a low alpha hop is always more restrained than from a higher alpha verity like say Magnum or Northern Brewer. A longer boil say 90 minutes will give the beer a bit fuller palate and help soften the hop character to.

Mark
Here is the original from where came the talk about adding glucose (dextrose)
m
 

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Sidney Harbour-Bridge

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Thanks for putting that linkup again Mark, I did the exact decoction mash they describe at the end with the hope of increasing banana flavor, I fermented with Wyeast 3068 at 20 C and have the cloviest hef I have ever made started at 1.047, finished at 1.010 but not a hint of banana, any ideas why, is 20 to low a temp. for any banana?
 

MHB

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Too much yeast kills banana!
That’s about the only thing that comes to mind. To get more Banana you should be pitching at the low end of the recommended ale range (0.4-1.0M cells/mL/oP). A lot of home brewers translate this to mean underpitching which it isn’t. You could go a bit hotter 22-23oC.
I like to do this one with Weyermann Floor Malted Pilsner and German Wheat around 50/50, sometimes it’s a banana bomb sometimes a bit bland. This about the only beer I brew where the outcome is a bit random and I'll be buggered if I know why, just a temperamental yeast (maybe).
Mark

Big ups for doing that decoction, I had a chat with Dr. Bertram Sacher, and asked him, if he wasn’t brewing under the Reinheitsgebot would he just ad glucose and got back a ja in bold.
M
 
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Osangar

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Has anyone experimented with dextrose additions in their weissbier? It adds to the banana character. But on the flip side you get a slightly lower FG. I’m drinking my Hefe alongside the Weihenstephaner I’ve tried copying, and I like the fuller mouthfeel from the Weihenstephaner.

I used 3% dextrose, but I might reduce that to 2% and up the fermentation temperature 1C next time.

For sure the Weihenstephaner 14IBU is a lot less than my 14IBU. Mine has detectable bitterness that’s absent in the Weihenstephaner. I’ll aim for 10IBU next time which should be a better match.
not sure about this one. dextrose is a sugar, and one that would be eaten by the yeast in the fermentation process; I can't see how this would have an impact on the yeast creating the banana (or clove if your using Schneider yeast). pitch rate, temp variation during fermentation, pitch temp, will have the greatest impact on the yeast ability to produce banana. I also read that PH has a major factor as well, a factor in watching more and more with my weizen beers. .

do you think that dextrin has had an effect on the yeast producing these flavours ?
 

MHB

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Without Glucose (dextrose) yeast will follow a different pathway and it cant make isoamyl acetate.
The whole point of adding Glucose is to send the yeast down the banana pathway.
True, all the other factors you mentiond are important, but no glucose no banana.
Dextrins would be a whole other conversation.
Mark
 

Osangar

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[/QUOTE]
Without Glucose (dextrose) yeast will follow a different pathway and it cant make isoamyl acetate.
The whole point of adding Glucose is to send the yeast down the banana pathway.
True,all the other factors you mentiond are important, but no glucose no banana.
Dextrins would be a whole other conversation.
Mark
fascinating; I've never come across this before.
ill add it to my list of potentials to try. although I'm getting terrific banana flavour in mine already (for 3068) and great clove (for Schneider) but more flavour can't hurt
 

Sidney Harbour-Bridge

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Too much yeast kills banana!
That’s about the only thing that comes to mind. To get more Banana you should be pitching at the low end of the recommended ale range (0.4-1.0M cells/mL/oP). A lot of home brewers translate this to mean underpitching which it isn’t. You could go a bit hotter 22-23oC.
I like to do this one with Weyermann Floor Malted Pilsner and German Wheat around 50/50, sometimes it’s a banana bomb sometimes a bit bland. This about the only beer I brew where the outcome is a bit random and I'll be buggered if I know why, just a temperamental yeast (maybe).
Mark

Big ups for doing that decoction, I had a chat with Dr. Bertram Sacher, and asked him, if he wasn’t brewing under the Reinheitsgebot would he just ad glucose and got back a ja in bold.
M
Checked my records this morning, looks like I made a 3 L starter for a 20l batch, I'll half that next time, do you think that will be small enough?

I've done a lot of decoctions this year, hefs get two and pilsners three, the joy in home brewing for me is the method as much as the result and I do enjoy my beer. I wanted to try this one as it's a bit strange because it doesn't boil the decoction, I presume all it does is create more glucose in the wort, rather than enhance malt flavor, it would be simpler to just add glucose but I like the idea of the Reinheitsgebot, it's a bit like brewing to style guidelines, it adds direction to my brewing
 

MHB

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Agreed, done decoctions in the past and they are interesting if time consuming.

In this case, the decoction forms Maltose through Beta Amylase activity, then is returned to the main mash, where Maltase converts Maltose into 2 Glucose. Maltase is fully denatured over ~45oC so it rarely gets a play as it is denatured mostly by the time people mash in.
I have been thinking about another way to get to the same place.
If you mashed in somewhere in the 35-40oC range, ideally at a 6pH (optimum for maltase) and allowed it to sit for 12 hours or so. There should be enough activity from both the Amylases to make some maltose for the Maltase to chew on. Bit like the old overnight digestion brewing schedule.
From there just ramp to your normal mash regieme. Having a Braumeister will make this pretty easy. Set it in manual mode, mash in and leave overnight, in the morning adjust the pH and run your programmed mash.
Be interesting to see how much goes into solution during the overnight digestion, and of course how much glucose there is in the wort. Now I just need a simple way to measure glucose.
Mark
 

Cloud Surfer

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One of my favourite beers
Having a look at the website from Weihenstephan they say, OG 12.7oP or 1.0508 (1.051), alcohol 5.7% from which we can deduce an FG of 1.0103 (well if you can measure the 0.0003) call it 1.010

Apparent attenuation is 79.7% (call it 80%) which is a bit higher than you would expect from say W 3068. Assuming your wort isn’t super fermentable adding a bit (<5%) of dextrose shouldn’t have much effect on where the beer pulls up, it will have a big effect on the banana aroma/flavour given you don’t overpitch or brew way too cool.
I just measured the FG of Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier and got 1.010. At 5.4% ABV, that’s an OG of 1.051. Exactly the numbers you have. That was a surprise to me as it has the mouthfeel of a slightly higher gravity beer.

While my Weissbier is very nice, I would still like to get it closer to the Weihenstephaner, so I’ll brew clone #2 in a few weeks with a few tweaks to the first attempt.
 

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