Bavarian Weissbier Tips

[Hpal]

Guys, I'm having another crack at a Bavarian Weissbier (such as Schofferhofer, Franziskaner etc) and to date I haven't been able to get it just how I like it, so I need your help!
I like it a slightly leaning toward banana, cloudy, and a full mouthfeel. I do BIAB and usually no chill. I don't make water additions but my water is pretty good and balanced.
I was thinking of trying Mangrove Jacks M20 yeast.

What are people's thought on things such as:

1. Yeast strain
2. Ferment temp
3. Mash schedule
4. Recipe,grain and hop bill, colour, IBU
5. Oxygen levels for fermentation (stressing yeast a bit to produce esters)
6. Anything else I've forgotten

Thanks!

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Go 3068 yeast.

MJ are IMO the best dried yeast for less than your standard ales and lagers but there are beers where wet is best.

I found the same applied to the myriad of dried Saison yeasts. Only when I used the wet one did it hit the spot.

If the cost per brew is an issue, look up let's freeze some yeast thread and learn about splitting batches and starters. You can get your cost per batch down to $1-2.

 

[warra48]

The last batch I did was a Hefeweizen, brewed with WY3068.
I followed the advice from this article, and it turned out the best Hefeweizen I've brewed for about 6 or 7 years, after multiple less than stellar results.

http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

 

[Hpal]

That's just the article I was reading this morning! My previous batches were lacking something but I just need to find out what I'm not doing right.

The last batch I did was a Hefeweizen, brewed with WY3068.
I followed the advice from this article, and it turned out the best Hefeweizen I've brewed for about 6 or 7 years, after multiple less than stellar results.

http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

 

[Hpal]

The last batch I did was a Hefeweizen, brewed with WY3068.
I followed the advice from this article, and it turned out the best Hefeweizen I've brewed for about 6 or 7 years, after multiple less than stellar results.

http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

Thanks Warra ta,
Would you be willing to share your recipe and technique? Thanks

 

[Adr_0]

The last batch I did was a Hefeweizen, brewed with WY3068.
I followed the advice from this article, and it turned out the best Hefeweizen I've brewed for about 6 or 7 years, after multiple less than stellar results.

http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

That's an awesome article, thanks for the post! I've heard about the extra sweep through the 45°C range to break down maltose into glucose. I also wondered if something like dextrose (ie glucose) would do the trick?

 

[warra48]

Here it is. You could probably drop the Carawheat, in fact, I will for my next batch. The mash steps look funny, because I don't use BeerSmith2 for my volumes. After 10+ years on my system I don't need to be told how much water to add.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 125 Elliot's Hefeweizen
Brewer: Robert
Asst Brewer:
Style: Weizen/Weissbier (Wheat Beer)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 35.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 27.50 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Bottling Volume: 25.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 7.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 14.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 91.8 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.2 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 65.3 %
1.6 kg Premium Pilsner (2.5 EBC) Grain 2 32.7 %
0.1 kg Carawheat (Weyermann) (98.5 EBC) Grain 3 2.0 %
34.0 g Tettnang (Tettnang Tettnager) [4.00 %] - Hop 4 14.0 IBUs
5.00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 5 -
1.0 pkg Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast 6 -


Mash Schedule: My 3 step Hefeweizen Mash
Total Grain Weight: 4.9 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Protein Error: Infusion temperature 55.0 C 10 min
Maltose Add 0.00 l of water at 63.0 63.0 C 45 min
Saccharification Add 0.00 l of water at 72.0 72.0 C 30 min

Sparge: Batch sparged with mashout at 78ºC for first run off, and 2nd batch sparge
Notes:
------
Mashed 55ºC 10 minutes
Stepped 63ºC 45 minutes
Stepped 72ºC 30 minutes

Pitched a starter of WY3068
Batch not aerated

 

[Hpal]

An update, finally had a crack at the Hefe on Friday, very similar recipe and mash steps to above. It's nearing FG now and smells amazing, with a bit of luck I think I've got over the line, but time will tell.

 

[Osangar]

Is anyone into brewing hefeweizens these days ? Ive been obsessed with them lately. Had a few good ones, and some learning experiences. Happy to share if of interest

 

[Hangover68]

Is anyone into brewing hefeweizens these days ? Ive been obsessed with them lately. Had a few good ones, and some learning experiences. Happy to share if of interest

I've brewed 2, 1st was a 50/50 wheat/pilsner, 2nd was a 60/40 pale malt/wheat.
Both using Hallertau original and WB06 yeast., will be brewing another soon.

 

[Osangar]

I've brewed 2, 1st was a 50/50 wheat/pilsner, 2nd was a 60/40 pale malt/wheat.
Both using Hallertau original and WB06 yeast., will be brewing another soon.

I'm currently brewing one with 20% vienna and 20% pilsner with the rest wheat; so far it looks the part. im using Schneider weisse yeast and hallertau hops to 10ibu

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I've brewed lots of wheat beers over the years and it's a very tricky style to get right despite the myths about it being simple.

Things that haven't worked:
Dried yeast. No! Please don't.

Pils' and wheat grist. Always too watery (most EU wheat's have a more complex grist than this, look at the EBC)

What has worked:
Liquid yeast like WLP-300, you'll never get there with WB-06 and more complex grists. Namingly 40/60 wheat/Munich, or melanoidin with a Pils'/wheat. This is where I come out with a full flavoured Maisel's type weissbier and colour is usually spot on. I couldn't taste a difference between the bottled commercial version and mine apart from oxidation in the bottled version

I've recently made a couple more lighter experimental versions but am very unimpressed. They were 15-20% Munich, Pils' and wheat'. Yuck

All the best with it but with the right yeast and malt grist it actually is a relatively easy one to brew

 

[Osangar]

I've brewed lots of wheat beers over the years and it's a very tricky style to get right despite the myths about it being simple.

Things that haven't worked:
Dried yeast. No! Please don't.

Pils' and wheat grist. Always too watery (most EU wheat's have a more complex grist than this, look at the EBC)

What has worked:
Liquid yeast like WLP-300, you'll never get there with WB-06 and more complex grists. Namingly 40/60 wheat/Munich, or melanoidin with a Pils'/wheat. This is where I come out with a full flavoured Maisel's type weissbier and colour is usually spot on. I couldn't taste a difference between the bottled commercial version and mine apart from oxidation in the bottled version

I've recently made a couple more lighter experimental versions but am very unimpressed. They were 15-20% Munich, Pils' and wheat'. Yuck

All the best with it but with the right yeast and malt grist it actually is a relatively easy one to brew

hey Doc; thanks for your tips

i have had some (only 2) joy with the Munich Classic dry yeast, but my best results have been with the 3068, and the Schneider yeast.
interesting wheat to barley grain ratio. if im reading your post correctly, are you saying the higher the wheat the less you like the beer taste and have settled for 40% ?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

hey Doc; thanks for your tips

i have had some (only 2) joy with the Munich Classic dry yeast, but my best results have been with the 3068, and the Schneider yeast.
interesting wheat to barley grain ratio. if im reading your post correctly, are you saying the higher the wheat the less you like the beer taste and have settled for 40% ?

Yes mate, as strange as it may sound.

Wheat to me tastes like nothing, I've always had major success using a heavy Munich grist but yes, if you start with a 50/50 wheat/Munich schedule I'm sure you'll be very impressed

 

[keine_ahnung]

Yes mate, as strange as it may sound.

Wheat to me tastes like nothing, I've always had major success using a heavy Munich grist but yes, if you start with a 50/50 wheat/Munich schedule I'm sure you'll be very impressed

Is possibly a personal preference/taste thing (i.e. not so much liking the taste of wheat).... however, if you actually want it to be representative of a Bavarian Weissbier (as it's called in the south, rather than "Hefeweizen"), the malt bill must consist of at least 50% wheat. By law.
Fun fact

 

[voskar]

I've brewed lots of wheat beers over the years and it's a very tricky style to get right despite the myths about it being simple.

Things that haven't worked:
Dried yeast. No! Please don't.

Pils' and wheat grist. Always too watery (most EU wheat's have a more complex grist than this, look at the EBC)

What has worked:
Liquid yeast like WLP-300, you'll never get there with WB-06 and more complex grists. Namingly 40/60 wheat/Munich, or melanoidin with a Pils'/wheat. This is where I come out with a full flavoured Maisel's type weissbier and colour is usually spot on. I couldn't taste a difference between the bottled commercial version and mine apart from oxidation in the bottled version

I've recently made a couple more lighter experimental versions but am very unimpressed. They were 15-20% Munich, Pils' and wheat'. Yuck

All the best with it but with the right yeast and malt grist it actually is a relatively easy one to brew

I have been trying for a long time to make a decent Hefe.
Next time I try your recommended 40/60 wheat/Munich combo.
Question: what temperature do ferment at ?

Thanks

 

[TheAussieBrewer]

I keep going back to this Hefewezen recipe of mine and it's always a winner. I like more clove so I ferment WLP300 at 17⁰, also throw in a little Aurora Malt.

https://share.brewfather.app/KxD0ZnFhrQDYSW

 

[Osangar]

I keep going back to this Hefewezen recipe of mine and it's always a winner. I like more clove so I ferment WLP300 at 17⁰, also throw in a little Aurora Malt.

https://share.brewfather.app/KxD0ZnFhrQDYSW
View attachment 120371View attachment 120372

it's the clove for me also, I prefer it to the banana flavour. a point much debated with Germans. I've sat through a few hours of heated debate as to the better between some mates from southern Germany.

 

[Osangar]

on yeast - has anyone tried the WLP351 - I just ordered 2 packs to give it a go. keen to head towards the Schneider Weisse flavour profile in the next batch I make.

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

I've used the WLP 351 many times, produces less banana than WLP 300 and has slightly better attenuation, 82% vs 80%

 

[Osangar]

I've used the WLP 351 many times, produces less banana than WLP 300 and has slightly better attenuation, 82% vs 80%

interesting

ill report back when it arrives and I brew with it.

 

[Osangar]

found a hack that turned out great.

after my last weizen, I saved the yeast slurry; then repitched it into a dampfbier made from 4kg Munich 2 (weyermann) and 1 kg vienna, 10IBU hops at 40min - dam, what a great result. one to keep in the rotation from now on.

 

[Osangar]

interesting

ill report back when it arrives and I brew with it.

ok, so my WLP351yeast experiment is about halfway though. fermentation starting at 18, then raise to 22, then back to 18 in the primary; followed by the bottle at 18 for a week

the beer has nothing interesting about it at all. it's a good beer, but not 'amazing' like Schneider yeast, or 3068.

all in all, not a yeast I will buy again.

 

[TheAussieBrewer]

ok, so my WLP351yeast experiment is about halfway though. fermentation starting at 18, then raise to 22, then back to 18 in the primary; followed by the bottle at 18 for a week

the beer has nothing interesting about it at all. it's a good beer, but not 'amazing' like Schneider yeast, or 3068.

all in all, not a yeast I will buy again.

I found the same thing when I trialed it when I couldn't get WLP300. I save a few vials of yeast and make a starter for the next Hefe brew.

 

[Osangar]

i suspect it may be reasonable in a dampfbier

 

[Cloud Surfer]

Has anyone experimented with dextrose additions in their weissbier? It adds to the banana character. But on the flip side you get a slightly lower FG. I’m drinking my Hefe alongside the Weihenstephaner I’ve tried copying, and I like the fuller mouthfeel from the Weihenstephaner.

I used 3% dextrose, but I might reduce that to 2% and up the fermentation temperature 1C next time.

For sure the Weihenstephaner 14IBU is a lot less than my 14IBU. Mine has detectable bitterness that’s absent in the Weihenstephaner. I’ll aim for 10IBU next time which should be a better match.

 

[MHB]

One of my favourite beers
Having a look at the website from Weihenstephan they say, OG 12.7oP or 1.0508 (1.051), alcohol 5.7% from which we can deduce an FG of 1.0103 (well if you can measure the 0.0003) call it 1.010

Apparent attenuation is 79.7% (call it 80%) which is a bit higher than you would expect from say W 3068. Assuming your wort isn’t super fermentable adding a bit (<5%) of dextrose shouldn’t have much effect on where the beer pulls up, it will have a big effect on the banana aroma/flavour given you don’t overpitch or brew way too cool.

I would be tempted to stay at or around 14 IBU, go easy on the Sulphate if you are adding any and get your bitterness from one of the noble hops, My go to is Hallertau Mittlefrüh, the same bitterness from a low alpha hop is always more restrained than from a higher alpha verity like say Magnum or Northern Brewer. A longer boil say 90 minutes will give the beer a bit fuller palate and help soften the hop character to.

Mark
Here is the original from where came the talk about adding glucose (dextrose)
m

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

Thanks for putting that linkup again Mark, I did the exact decoction mash they describe at the end with the hope of increasing banana flavor, I fermented with Wyeast 3068 at 20 C and have the cloviest hef I have ever made started at 1.047, finished at 1.010 but not a hint of banana, any ideas why, is 20 to low a temp. for any banana?

 

[MHB]

Too much yeast kills banana!
That’s about the only thing that comes to mind. To get more Banana you should be pitching at the low end of the recommended ale range (0.4-1.0M cells/mL/oP). A lot of home brewers translate this to mean underpitching which it isn’t. You could go a bit hotter 22-23oC.
I like to do this one with Weyermann Floor Malted Pilsner and German Wheat around 50/50, sometimes it’s a banana bomb sometimes a bit bland. This about the only beer I brew where the outcome is a bit random and I'll be buggered if I know why, just a temperamental yeast (maybe).
Mark

Big ups for doing that decoction, I had a chat with Dr. Bertram Sacher, and asked him, if he wasn’t brewing under the Reinheitsgebot would he just ad glucose and got back a ja in bold.
M

 

[Osangar]

Has anyone experimented with dextrose additions in their weissbier? It adds to the banana character. But on the flip side you get a slightly lower FG. I’m drinking my Hefe alongside the Weihenstephaner I’ve tried copying, and I like the fuller mouthfeel from the Weihenstephaner.

I used 3% dextrose, but I might reduce that to 2% and up the fermentation temperature 1C next time.

For sure the Weihenstephaner 14IBU is a lot less than my 14IBU. Mine has detectable bitterness that’s absent in the Weihenstephaner. I’ll aim for 10IBU next time which should be a better match.

not sure about this one. dextrose is a sugar, and one that would be eaten by the yeast in the fermentation process; I can't see how this would have an impact on the yeast creating the banana (or clove if your using Schneider yeast). pitch rate, temp variation during fermentation, pitch temp, will have the greatest impact on the yeast ability to produce banana. I also read that PH has a major factor as well, a factor in watching more and more with my weizen beers. .

do you think that dextrin has had an effect on the yeast producing these flavours ?