Australian Amateur Brewing Championship 2007

[bigfridge]

Strongly disagree ... this is exactly the forum where the future of this event needs to be discussed, and given the hiccups of this year there's no time like the present to start the planning.

Just interested in what 'hiccups' you are referring to ? Just because this year's competition has been run differently to what people have experienced in the past doesn't mean that there are problems. Many competitions, particularly those run in association with Agricultural show societies show take weeks or months to release the results - and they have paid employees not volunteers.

I know that some competitions are obsessed with prompt release of results etc but this doesn't mean that ALL competitions have to be run that way. Like others have said I also believe that every competition is run as best as it can - given the resources and funding available. This means where there are many helpers and resources such as computers, programmers and websites the results will usually be available shortly after the judging is complete. Where there are insufficient resources then there will be delays. As they say the 'impossible takes a bit longer'.

There is nothing in the AABC rules that I have seen that specify how competitions should be run and what time limits are to be achieved.

I would ask any of you that are waiting impatiently if you honestly believe that the IBU gang is purposely delaying the completion of judging or the release of the results ? Perhaps they are doing it for their own amusement or to just piss you off

Probably not. Hence perhaps people should just give them a bit of space and stop imposing their own expectations on the hard working volunteers.

To put this in Zen terms - when the results are ready, they will come.

Good brewing,
David

 

[Trent]

Gday
I did not enter the Nats this year (didnt qualify), so I shall not comment on the time it is taking to get the results out. Even if I had've entered, it just says to me that they are trying to make sure they get the results right - the title of best Home Brewed Beer in the country is fairly prestigious!
Anyway, I just have one suggestion, after speaking with a friend of mine, and that is - can the state comp be held at least a month (maybe 2) before the nats next year, if that isnt going to throw everything out of whack? The reason being, there was only a 3 week gap (I think) between the state and nationals this year, meaning that people pretty much had to find out the results ASAP to get their entries into the nats in time. I know that there are quite a few home brewers that are not on AHB, so if someone does well in the state comp, and isnt on AHB, how are they to be notified that they have qualified for the Nats? If they wait for the score sheets to be posted out, it will be too late for them to enter the nats.
Does anyone know if any prizegetters at the state comp didnt send an entry into the nationals? If there were no missing entries, maybe this is a moot point, but it is just something to think about, and yes, I will be taking it up with my state rep. If it doesnt change, it is no skin off my nose, but I would hate to be someone that takes first place in a category, but misses out on the nats cause they didnt know until weeks later.
Best of luck to Ray and IBU's getting hte rest of the comp judged, and for donating so much free time to the cause.
All the best
Trent

 

[chovain]

Perhaps they are doing it for their own amusement

That'd so be me .

 

[browndog]

Does anyone know if any prizegetters at the state comp didnt send an entry into the nationals?

Over to you Screwtop.

cheers

Browndog

 

[capretta]

Now is not the time to complain, goodness the results are not even out yet.

haha yeah just wait until your prize beer gets a 12 out of 50.. then let the flame wars begin!! lol
i was going to release my secret judging name, but after the crankiness on this thread im not so sure!!

yeah trent you probably have a point there about the closeness of the state/nationals, considering the results were not mailed out before the nationals, but on the flip side wouldnt you prefer a similar beer (age wise) to be entered in the nationals? i would have to say for sure there were entries that qualified that were not sent in for the nationals. i think from memory there were 168 entries. i feel sure though that if you entered the state, you probably would have been aware that it was a qualifier for the nationals, and as such would have gone to the trouble of finding out the date it was held. probably. but yeah they were a little close, but not really by plan. do you think you could get a bunch of judges together at december christmas party time?

and to who ever made the stupid comment about accepting entries a week and a half late, well for sure, keep sending those bottles in and we will keep drinking them. dear me...

PS my secret judging name was cameron so if i judged your beer, please feel free to pm any questions you might have, i and i will try to be helpful, but please dont be upset if i cant remember exactly the beer/time of day/direction the wind was blowing etc

 

[beachy]

and to who ever made the stupid comment about accepting entries a week and a half late, well for sure, keep sending those bottles in and we will keep drinking them. dear me...

yes it probably was a stupid comment but my point was that it is a national comp with STRICT qualifacation rules and delivery deadlines and as such the entrants might expect the courtesy of a detailed explanation of the many problems that have obviously occurred directly from the organiser on or very close too the origional finnish date not second hand after much prompting.
having said that i agree complaining is not achieving anything and i WILL wait PATIENTLY

 

[Jye]

Any update on when the results will be released? The last give date has come and gone

Im trying to be patient but knowing that the judging is finished and the results are sitting there is giving me an ulcer.

Slight delay due to the 3rd judge not being well - will late in the weekend if not monday/tuesday evening.

Scotty

 

[Doc]

Does anyone know if any prizegetters at the state comp didnt send an entry into the nationals? If there were no missing entries, maybe this is a moot point, but it is just something to think about, and yes, I will be taking it up with my state rep.

I qualified and didn't enter.
Two reasons. One I was hoping to have the judging sheets to see if it really was worthy of entering, and the second was the time between was too close with so many other commitments on the go.

Doc

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Any update on when the results will be released? The last give date has come and gone

Im trying to be patient but knowing that the judging is finished and the results are sitting there is giving me an ulcer.

Sorry Jye but judging is not finished. Tonight local 3 men brave and true will be judging a strong ale catagory and I think an imperial category. This is serious heavy alcohol and there are quite a few entries so don't expect someone to rush home and put all results up tonight. Again, on behalf of the IBUs and all those good men from outside the area who travelled down to help the competition, please show continued patience. Please don't PM Ray or anyone else tonight asking for info - you won't get an response. For the moment people are embarassed enough how things have gone and silly snide little comments are not healthy. For what it's worth I apologise to everyone for the delays.

 

[Oblomov]

Sorry Jye but judging is not finished. Tonight local 3 men brave and true will be judging a strong ale catagory and I think an imperial category. This is serious heavy alcohol and there are quite a few entries so don't expect someone to rush home and put all results up tonight. Again, on behalf of the IBUs and all those good men from outside the area who travelled down to help the competition, please show continued patience. Please don't PM Ray or anyone else tonight asking for info - you won't get an response. For the moment people are embarassed enough how things have gone and silly snide little comments are not healthy. For what it's worth I apologise to everyone for the delays.

Don't worry about it.

Thanks for the update!

 

[Screwtop]

Over to you Screwtop.

cheers

Browndog

Simply had difficulty getting a reply from the organisers re some category questions I had and the entry deadline was fast approaching. Received an answer from Jye in the form of a post in this thread, but preferred a "from the horses mouth" reply from IBU. When I did receive a reply after 3 requests it was basically "look for yourself the information is there" thought Noice! maybe they have employed the services of some offshore, no care centre to handle replies. Changed my mind on entering based simply on that response, a sensitive little petal I know. But my personal opinion was that if this was the attitude portrayed by the organisers, then I really didn't want to be involved. I went away for a few days and gave the whole thing some thought, when I came home the entries were all sitting there, would have had to post them that day, made the decision then and there to give it a miss.

The reason for my post here is because of the request above. Don't believe that this forum serves any purpose or has any involvement in the comp or in disseminating of results. The committee and judges will decide when and where results are posted, this is nothing other than a forum for discussion and for airing opions.

For mine the judging seems pretty ordinary and has suffered from lack of proper planning. That being said there is nothing anyone can do now so it's pointless going on about it. I am sorry for all of the entrants who have strived so hard, this national comp will no doubt result in some stigma being attached to the results for years to come. It would have been much nicer for entrants to have had results published without such controversy.

Leave em alone, ya can't unscramble eggs, this should never happen again, it's not fair on entrants, stuff the feelings of the judges, comps exist due to entrants and entry fees, it's the chicken and egg story. So many posts here defend the judges, while it's their job to judge it's the organisers responsibility to look to the 6 P's principal and plan. It has turned into a bit of a cowboy outfit, but lay off and wait, especially if you have entries in the comp, how will you feel if you win a category, will you then be praising and thanking judges and organisers.

Screwy

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Simply had difficulty getting a reply from the organisers re some category questions I had and the entry deadline was fast approaching. Received an answer from Jye in the form of a post in this thread, but preferred a "from the horses mouth" reply from IBU. When I did receive a reply after 3 requests it was basically "look for yourself the information is there" thought Noice! maybe they have employed the services of some offshore, no care centre to handle replies. Changed my mind on entering based simply on that response, a sensitive little petal I know. But my personal opinion was that if this was the attitude portrayed by the organisers, then I really didn't want to be involved. I went away for a few days and gave the whole thing some thought, when I came home the entries were all sitting there, would have had to post them that day, made the decision then and there to give it a miss.

The reason for my post here is because of the request above. Don't believe that this forum serves any purpose or has any involvement in the comp or in disseminating of results. The committee and judges will decide when and where results are posted, this is nothing other than a forum for discussion and for airing opions.

For mine the judging seems pretty ordinary and has suffered from lack of proper planning. That being said there is nothing anyone can do now so it's pointless going on about it. I am sorry for all of the entrants who have strived so hard, this national comp will no doubt result in some stigma being attached to the results for years to come. It would have been much nicer for entrants to have had results published without such controversy.

Leave em alone, ya can't unscramble eggs, this should never happen again, it's not fair on entrants, stuff the feelings of the judges, comps exist due to entrants and entry fees, it's the chicken and egg story. So many posts here defend the judges, while it's their job to judge it's the organisers responsibility to look to the 6 P's principal and plan. It has turned into a bit of a cowboy outfit, but lay off and wait, especially if you have entries in the comp, how will you feel if you win a category, will you then be praising and thanking judges and organisers.

Screwy

Good, now you've got that off your chest, I hope you feel better.

 

[Screwtop]

Good, now you've got that off your chest, I hope you feel better.

Haaah, yes thanks :lol:

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Haaah, yes thanks :lol:

that's why we gotta love ya !!!

 

[browndog]

Good, now you've got that off your chest, I hope you feel better.

Screwy did very well in the QABC and for him not to have entered his beers has only lessened the quality of the comp. Not having a reply from 3 emails is just down right disgusting and I don't blame him for not entering. But once again, as with the other legitimate posts it has been ignored. If you have anything to do with the IBUs Fatgodzilla, I would be discussing Screwtop's lack of replys in your post mortem of the comp.

regards

BRowndog

 

[capretta]

yes it probably was a stupid comment but my point was that it is a national comp with STRICT qualifacation rules and delivery deadlines and as such the entrants might expect the courtesy of a detailed explanation of the many problems that have obviously occurred directly from the organiser on or very close too the origional finnish date not second hand after much prompting.
having said that i agree complaining is not achieving anything and i WILL wait PATIENTLY

strict entry rules ensure an even playing field. of utmost importance i believe. i thought also that a detailed explanation had been provided, mainly a lack of experienced judges. we could have just sent them down to a local pub if we were in a unethical hurry, but we are spending up to 4ish hours on 15ish beers, so there is a lot of discussion involved for best possible results.

as to the MANY problems that have OBVIOUSLY occurred, well, simply its a lack of experienced judges with available time. with the close timing of nsw state and nationals it takes a lot to rack up "beer credits" with the mrs to spend days "on the piss"..you guys can come across as a little impatient, glad beachy see beachy chillin

im sorry screwtop didnt receive the replies that he was after, he probably sent them to ray who is very busy at the mo and maybe a little curt, probably best for him to say, but retrospectively what would you do? hand the replies over to fat godzilla and me? who both have spent time answering questions but have never been involved in organising a national comp before??

2 flights were completed tonight and there is one more in the pipe for this week, results will be posted early next week.

as for "stigma for years to come"... drama worthy of shakespeare.

 

[lonte]

Thanks for the frank and open updates ... exactly the ticket and I will now happily (and silently) wait until next week before whining on again

Just a quick question - how might the Best of Show (assuming there were plans to do one in the first place) be done now? If highest point scoring beer then easy - if there were plans to have a BoS round then ... ???

Cheers!!

 

[AndrewQLD]

Simply had difficulty getting a reply from the organisers re some category questions I had and the entry deadline was fast approaching. Received an answer from Jye in the form of a post in this thread, but preferred a "from the horses mouth" reply from IBU. When I did receive a reply after 3 requests it was basically "look for yourself the information is there" thought Noice! maybe they have employed the services of some offshore, no care centre to handle replies. Changed my mind on entering based simply on that response, a sensitive little petal I know. But my personal opinion was that if this was the attitude portrayed by the organisers, then I really didn't want to be involved. I went away for a few days and gave the whole thing some thought, when I came home the entries were all sitting there, would have had to post them that day, made the decision then and there to give it a miss.

The reason for my post here is because of the request above. Don't believe that this forum serves any purpose or has any involvement in the comp or in disseminating of results. The committee and judges will decide when and where results are posted, this is nothing other than a forum for discussion and for airing opions.

For mine the judging seems pretty ordinary and has suffered from lack of proper planning. That being said there is nothing anyone can do now so it's pointless going on about it. I am sorry for all of the entrants who have strived so hard, this national comp will no doubt result in some stigma being attached to the results for years to come. It would have been much nicer for entrants to have had results published without such controversy.

Leave em alone, ya can't unscramble eggs, this should never happen again, it's not fair on entrants, stuff the feelings of the judges, comps exist due to entrants and entry fees, it's the chicken and egg story. So many posts here defend the judges, while it's their job to judge it's the organisers responsibility to look to the 6 P's principal and plan. It has turned into a bit of a cowboy outfit, but lay off and wait, especially if you have entries in the comp, how will you feel if you win a category, will you then be praising and thanking judges and organisers.

Screwy

Hi Srewy,

I am very dissappointed to hear that your entries never got sent to the AABC, you had some exceptional beers that would have placed highly and I am sure taken a few trophies.

I thought I answered the question for you in this post here but I can understand your wanting confirmation from the IBU organisers to confirm you were doing the right thing.

Sad day for Queensland brewing when one of the stars of the State competition missed out on entering the National due to a communication breakdown. More lessons learnt here I think.

Sorry for your disappointment Screwy.

Andrew

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Thanks for the frank and open updates ... exactly the ticket and I will now happily (and silently) wait until next week before whining on again

Just a quick question - how might the Best of Show (assuming there were plans to do one in the first place) be done now? If highest point scoring beer then easy - if there were plans to have a BoS round then ... ???

Cheers!!

There was never any intention of a BOS being conducted as a seperate tasting event. This was discussed following the NSW titles if you want to read those threads. Based on my experience stewarding at the state and nationals and this is my opinion only, not that of the IBUs, the State or National bodies, just this big fat bloke's opinion, contestants would need to supply (say) two 600ml bottles (minimum) to have a second bottle suitable for judging. Some contestants supplied 2 375ml stubbies but at a pinch (and my assessment only) a bigger sample is neded to judge. Some contestants did and it shows that the system can work, albeit with a few more handling, storage and cooling problems as well as freight costs for the individuals, but yes it can be done. In the end only a small fraction of the second bottles are needed for a seperate BOS so these would either drunk at the end of the day social drink or taken home by someone to be drunk later. I have a few from both the state and nationals which I am going to use to test myself in upcoming BCJP studies (along with the NSW Xmas case swap). But as the majority of entries were single 750 ml bottles, clearly no second testing was done. That done, and you have to trust me (cos I was there) when I say that the judges made sure that they marked the beers knowing that BOS "status" and that is what it is "status" only, was on the line. Given these two things, you know that if a BOS status is granted, it'll be earned.

Good brewing

 

[capretta]

best of show will be calculated as the beer with the highest point score.
not ideal as you will have different judges, doing different flights with different thresholds of marking..
but one thing i will say, the beer that wins will be a great beer, have no fear of that.

maybe down the track, the rules should be changed to only permit 2x 750ml (would 2x375ml be enough?) bottles to allow for a true best of show round? then you add delivery and setup complexities.. is it worth it?

smarter men than me can figure that out...