Australian Amateur Brewing Championship 2007

[capretta]

damn my fat slow fingers!! fat godzilla beat me again!!

 

[Fatgodzilla]

best of show will be calculated as the beer with the highest point score.
not ideal as you will have different judges, doing different flights with different thresholds of marking..
but one thing i will say, the beer that wins will be a great beer, have no fear of that.

maybe down the track, the rules should be changed to only permit 2x 750ml (would 2x375ml be enough?) bottles to allow for a true best of show round? then you add delivery and setup complexities.. is it worth it?

smarter men than me can figure that out...

Good to see you awake. I hope you caught a bus home last night. 375ml stubbies a little too small in some cases where the judges want to have a real good look - in most cases fine, but let's not get cute. 600ml minimum x 2. You know what I mean by all the extra problems storage and cooling but eventually, I see it as a necessary part of the process. Other events do so.

 

[floppinab]

Been reading this thread with some interest. The root of the issue I believe is here. To organise two major comps within, what 4 or 5 weeks of each other, tightly shouldered up against the silly season is a big ask for anyone. From a judging perspective I know a number of the Sydney guys that made it down for the NSW Champs had most definately exhausted any credits for the nationals and although personally I tried to talk up a day trip down the Bulli for the family but the time of year beat me.

I think the powers that be need to look closely at the timing of these events for the coming years.

 

[Screwtop]

Hi Srewy,

I am very dissappointed to hear that your entries never got sent to the AABC, you had some exceptional beers that would have placed highly and I am sure taken a few trophies.

I thought I answered the question for you in this post here but I can understand your wanting confirmation from the IBU organisers to confirm you were doing the right thing.

Sad day for Queensland brewing when one of the stars of the State competition missed out on entering the National due to a communication breakdown. More lessons learnt here I think.

Sorry for your disappointment Screwy.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew, no dissapointment, looking forward to making better beers and entering again next year. Haven't been entering comps for years so probably ask some stupid questions of the organisers, want to make sure I get my entries right. I take it that Ray says what he means, and he asked for queries to be sent to him via the link on the ibunion.org site. Sent my queries to Ray at [email protected] as requested and after not receiving a reply, posted in this thread hoping Ray would see that I had emailled him.

The last email (below) was sent on Wed 24/10/07 maybe someone who has access to the email account could check and see if the emails actually arrived.

Good morning Ray,

Can you please clarify for me,

Quote: those that have qualified with a 1st, 2nd and 3rd placing in participating AABC State Competitions can enter :Unquote.

Are entries restricted to the same class/sub class in which placings were received.

Cheers,

Michael

As I said, can't unscramble eggs, so lets get on with making beer for next years entries.

Brew Happy B)

 

[Stuster]

Been reading this thread with some interest. The root of the issue I believe is here. To organise two major comps within, what 4 or 5 weeks of each other, tightly shouldered up against the silly season is a big ask for anyone. From a judging perspective I know a number of the Sydney guys that made it down for the NSW Champs had most definately exhausted any credits for the nationals and although personally I tried to talk up a day trip down the Bulli for the family but the time of year beat me.

I think the powers that be need to look closely at the timing of these events for the coming years.

+1 to this. I was another one who judged at the state comp, but couldn't make it down for the nationals so soon after. The timing with the elections was unlucky as well. I also didn't enter my bitter into the nationals for reasons as Doc - not having received the score sheets from the first one, and just a lack of time to get them in.

I certainly appreciate the time and energy it's taken to run these two comps, and I'm certainly not blaming those involved who are taking lots of their free time to get this finish properly. :beer:

 

[capretta]

screwtop, i thought the spirit of the competition would have given you the answer to that question.

 

[Screwtop]

screwtop, i thought the spirit of the competition would have given you the answer to that question.

Sorry, Capretta another dumb question, what do you mean, answer to what question?

 

[bigfridge]

would 2x375ml be enough?

A good approach is to only take about 25-30 mils per taste and you only need to do this 2-3 times so 300 mls should be fine for a table of 3 judges with some slops left over for the stewards.

We mainly had 2 x 330ml bottles at the Bitter & Twisted competition and it all worked fine - one for judging on the day and a 2nd bottle for the seperate BOS round a week later.

2 x 330ml take up much the same space and weight as 1 x 750 ml so the comments about extra space being needed for storage etc are a bit of a furfy.

David

 

[capretta]

screwtop,
Are entries restricted to the same class/sub class in which placings were received?

well, surely you would only enter the same beer in the nationals which won in the state comp. why would you qualify a beer then enter another completely different beer? would you feel comfortable doing that? what sort of comp would you have if every one decided to enter a stout instead of the pils/belgian/old ale that they qualified with. it would seem obvious to me that there is a little flexibility in the rules so as to not exclude those who through misfortune/act of god do not have another bottle of the same beer that placed in the state, not for people to use a loophole to enter whatever they wanted.

2 x 330ml take up much the same space and weight as 1 x 750 ml so the comments about extra space being needed for storage etc are a bit of a furfy.

David

furfy? the comments i made about storage space applied to 2x750ml bottles only. it was common opinion at the state comp the 375ml bottles were not enough. my post was made to encourage debate about the entry requirements. while your other comments are helpful im sure everyone know the relative sizes of 375/750ml bottles.

 

[berapnopod]

We mainly had 2 x 330ml bottles at the Bitter & Twisted competition and it all worked fine - one for judging on the day and a 2nd bottle for the seperate BOS round a week later.

David, I was on the BOS table and can tell you there certainly was not enough of the BOS winner for us in just one 330ml bottle! There was just enough to get the judging out of the way, but then nothing left to relax and unwind on.

I suggest all future BOS rounds require at least a six-pack to be sent in

Berp.

 

[Screwtop]

well, surely you would only enter the same beer in the nationals which won in the state comp. why would you qualify a beer then enter another completely different beer? would you feel comfortable doing that? what sort of comp would you have if every one decided to enter a stout instead of the pils/belgian/old ale that they qualified with.

Was confused about the sub categories, certainly wouldn't enter a stout in a pils category.

Haven't been entering comps for years so probably ask some stupid questions of the organisers, want to make sure I get my entries right.

it would seem obvious to me that there is a little flexibility in the rules so as to not exclude those who through misfortune/act of god do not have another bottle of the same beer that placed in the state, not for people to use a loophole to enter whatever they wanted.

Geez Louise, that's a bit OT

Keep it lite huh, The defensive and offensive nature of some replies in this thread kind of lead me to believe I had a win by not entering :lol:

As previously stated I'm not disappointed, and would like to see things lighten up a little.

 

[capretta]

sorry! point taken! i got the feeling you were being deliberately obtuse..
i just took the rules to mean you entered the same beer, unless the organisers/post office broke your bottle or something else out of your hands (not that it was too nice for you not to drink it all) so therefore you would be only allowed to enter the same beer, unless the organisers asked you to send another for whatever reason.

i am happy to sit out this thread until results are posted, cause until that time i feel a bit like me and fat godzilla have the weight of national expectation on us, and can lead to me posting a bit defensive..

catch ya next week cool bananas! B)

 

[Jye]

i am happy to sit out this thread until results are posted...

catch ya next week cool bananas! B)

Arrrgggh, next week :lol:

 

[PostModern]

I think the best thing for everyone to do from here is wait for next week. Cam has pointed out that judging will be concluded shortly and the results posted next week. Ray and his helpers will get the paperwork out of the way early next week, so results and score sheets will be posted shortly after.

I think we've all learned a little something from this experience. A large part of the problem has certainly been the quantity and quality of the entries. Over the past month, we've had to handle the logistics of 165 (+??) entries, comprised of nearly 200 bottles, store them well (none of them have ever been sitting in the sun or in someones shed, they've all been kept refrigerated at all times since receipt by the IBUs), move them to the judging venue, etc, there has been a large amount of paperwork and data entry involved for capturing the entrants' details, scores, flight sheet preparation, etc etc. It's been a mammoth task, performed by a small group of dedicated brewers who knew they didn't have the time or resources but kept to task anyway. As Dave said, it's being done by volunteers, not employees, so please bear that in mind.

It should be known that some of the logistic the problems with judging the Nationals were anticipated some months ahead of time, and an alternative judging body was sought, but no-one else put up their hand to take on the job, so it stayed with Ray, who, as has been previously mentioned, is severely over-committed at this time. So please cut Ray and the other organisers some slack. He's well aware of the anxiety some of you are going thru, but really, what is there to do for you now but sit and wait? The judging is almost over, the scoring is all tabbed up barring the final flight, so it's nearly over the line.

Godzilla and Cam have had a tough time here stemming the tide of complaints and enquiries. Please give them a break too.

I would also like to say that the beers I helped judge last night were great. The quality of the entries is unreal to see. I'm sorry that Screwtop, Stu's and Doc's entries were withheld, as they would doubtlessly have lifted the quality of the field even higher. Homebrewing in Australia is going ahead in leaps and bounds. It's great to see our craft going so well. Now let's not let a few organisational hiccoughs in the Nationals put a damper on that for future events. Many of the beers I tasted last night were of or better than commercial quality. I would have bought a six-pack of many of them and been more than happy.

 

[GMK]

PoMo,

if you were judging the Strong Ale category - then i had 2 entries in it;
~ English Barley Wine, &
~ American Barley Wine.

Hope that you enjoyed them.

 

[Snow]

PoMo,

if you were judging the Strong Ale category - then i had 2 entries in it;
~ English Barley Wine, &
~ American Barley Wine.

Hope that you enjoyed them.

All full of oak chips, no doubt, Ken? :lol:

Cheers - Snow

 

[Insight]

Can I summarise for people not wanting to read through 1 million posts?

Entrants: Where's these results then?
Organisers: We're had a few problems with volunteer judges, so we're not done yet. We're doing our best, hang in there.
Entrants: For christ sake, where are these results, they were due a week ago?
Sympathisers: If you can do a better job, put your hand up next year you bloody layabouts.
Organiser: Abuse of site sponsor for no apparent reason.
Judges: Sorry about this, we really are doing our best.
Zen Dudes: The results will come, Relax guys!
Entrants: Jesus, this is getting ridiculous.
Non-entrants: I didn't enter my beers because of lack of communication / no response from NSW comp.
Bouncers: Well.....HTFU. I ridicule your literary ability.
Everyone: An uneasy, jokey truce seems to have fallen over the forum...

No apologies if I have missed out individuals or mis-represented people - this is my impression after reading. I thought homebrewers were the layed back types? Its not WW3 :chug: RDWHAHB

 

[GMK]

Snow....

How GOOD are you.....

The English Barley Wine was aged in oak barrel for 3 months.

The American Barley Wine had none...

 

[chris.taylor.98]

<sever rant waring>

After lurking on this thread for some time and holding my tongue, after have a few tonight I can no longer hold back.

I disagree with previous posters saying now is not the time and this is not the place.

We're all pissed off and feed up ... and we want answers ... who's to blame. Lets light the torches and get marching.

Now lets see, a bunch of volunteers put up there hand to organise our fine national competition, and for some reason it seems to all go pear shaped.

Results are not out the nano-second we want them so it easy isn't, we just blame them. We'll just whinge and complain and snipe until we have torn them down to size and "got it off our chests". That will solve it!

But wait, they are volunteers, who have taken this on in good faith, and they are trying to do the right thing by making sure all the flights are judged properly (I know by now I would be tempted to cut some corners for the sake of getting it over with).

... and they can't really be blamed for John Winston Howard calling an election on the same day (guess we have already taken care of that problem )

... so what is the real problem here

well lets see, X number of flights to judge and much less then X x 3 judges ... hmmm ... OMG, not enough available judges! How could that be? Not enough judges!

So here's the crux of it. After being involved in several competitions now, it seems to almost always comes down to not enough judges.

People go on and on about the crap quality of there feedback, the time it takes to get results back, the poor organisiation blah blah blah.

Well I say don't get angry, get even. Come and make sure its done properly. Come and watch and learn how its done. You don't have to be a champion brewer to judge.

Come and help steward.

Offer to be a fourth non scoring judge if you really are not sure, but just come and participate.

Until we have more people involved in this process we will always be having these problems. Sure the comp has not been run perfectly, but which one is? But if they had a bigger pool to draw upon we would never be in this situation.

As an aside, I have to say that judging is a fantastic way of broadening your brewing experience. You will come across some of the best of beers and some of the worst of beers.

You also have a group of dedicated individuals that have so much knowledge to learn from, and in judging the gloves are off. Its none of that pussy footing around pretending that the beer is ok when you really just want to spit it out.

Don't know your diacytel from your acetic acid? Wouldn't know a phenol if it jumped and bit you on the arse? Well by the end of judging a couple of sessions you know all this and more.

So the what is the REAL problem here? The one that we can all do something about to FIX the situation? We are the problem, and we are also the solution. Get off your arse and get involved, so that next time you won't have to be fretting about the time it takes for a competition to be run.

</sever rant waring>

 

[PostModern]

Thanks Chris. It's good to see that someone outside the group can understand and sympathise.

UPDATE: Some dedicated volunteers pulled together tonight and went through judging the last category. Stay tuned.

GMK, I did help judge the Barley Wines. I remember one that was Oakey, but we don't see any names on the beers, so I can't even give you a hint of how you scored, as I don't know.