Australian Amateur Brewing Championship 2007

[Zizzle]

I suspect part of the problem here is that this is not the official forum for debating such matters.

This may be a stupid question, but what is the offical forum? I hope the answer isn't private emails.

As such, the AABC people have no obligation whatsoever to report anything through this channel. They don't have to answer queries from here, and if they are smart, they are probably not even reading.

No, if they we smart they would be here making a good impression, inspiring new people to enter the comps, keeping the existing competitors happy, and just generally managing everyones expectations.

It should be an advertising opportunity. Coming across here as a bunch of prima donna's simply because it is not the "official" forum does not help anyone.

 

[Chad]

This is ridiculous. What's the difference between publishing the names, scores and states for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and publishing the names, scores and states for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc?

I understand that by not publishing the non-placegetters names that there is some protection of identity so the lower rankers don't feel bad publicly. But like you said, they had to be all fairly good beers anyway.

What about a nameless list of scores?

so you can pick your score out of a list.

heck even, Score, beerstyle, no name.

While a score and feedback is great, it is also good to know how it did against the other entries. I'm sure my one and only entered beer didn't do too well, but I certainly don't have an issue with people seeing that.
I really like the idea of the nameless list so we can match our points to it. Anonymous, but still useful.

 

[beachy]

I agree it would be best to publish them, beachy. It was also an issue for the state comp, with a few people saying they'd prefer it the full results published. But I think you are getting a bit too heated about this. It's really not such a big issue either way IMO, but if the people who did organise it this year thought that was the way to jump, then I guess that is their right according to the regulations. If you want that changed (and I do too, and so do a few others), I'd guess we have to get out there and contact our state reps and get our voices heard that way. Then things can change for next year. In fact, looking back at the thread, I don't think that there necessarily has been a decision not to publish the results, so maybe it'd be better to relax, send an email to Ray Mills and the IBUs, and see what happens. It'll probably work better for you than getting all irate. RDWHAHB mate. :icon_cheers:

BTW, I think that Mark Chovain has an excellent point. Surely all entrants have given implied consent by entering. :huh:

yes good points

the very important leason i have recently learnt is that just because someone says ''on behalf of '' doesnt really mean that thier comments have any validity or that they have any right to infer that they are officially representing the organisors :huh:

so hopefully the official response will be to post full results as many people seem to want or at least a very good reason why this comp has to be different to every other comp

 

[beachy]

No, if they we smart they would be here making a good impression, inspiring new people to enter the comps, keeping the existing competitors happy, and just generally managing everyones expectations.

It should be an advertising opportunity. Coming across here as a bunch of prima donna's simply because it is not the "official" forum does not help anyone.

the best post in 13 pages

 

[Maxt]

....

Keeping this in mind, we are getting all hot under the collar arguing about something that there hasn't been any official word on, yet.

Seems that F.G has been speaking (unofficially?) for the organizing committee though, goatherder.

Yes. Full results of who came first, second and third.
But no, the scores of those who did not get a placing will not be published on any site anywhere. EOS.

That statement is a world away from.."nothing has been decided".
Anyway, looks to me like heaps of votes for publishing all results, bugger all against...

 

[capretta]

I suspect part of the problem here is that this is not the official forum for debating such matters.
... They don't have to answer queries from here... they are probably not even reading. If you have a query, send it to the comp organisers or your state AABA rep rather than spin your wheels here.

...Keeping this in mind, we are getting all hot under the collar arguing about something that there hasn't been any official word on, yet. This should be a total nonargument yet people want to keep chucking spears at each other. Insanity.

+1 Sweet voice of reason B)

AHB forum members,

I have sent the following e-mail to what I believe is the official AABC 2007 e-mail address, I will post any reply I receive here:

From: Lonte
To: '[email protected]'
Cc:
Subject: AABC 2007 Full Results

Gday,

Could you please advise if and when the full results of the AABC 2007 will be published on the AABC website?

Many thanks

+1 Sweet hand of reason B)

 

[goatherder]

This may be a stupid question, but what is the offical forum? I hope the answer isn't private emails.

Not a stupid question at all. I assume your state AABA rep via private email.

No, if they we smart they would be here making a good impression, inspiring new people to enter the comps, keeping the existing competitors happy, and just generally managing everyones expectations.

100% agree with you.

Seems that F.G has been speaking (unofficially?) for the organizing committee though, goatherder.

It certainly does seem that way and if it were official it would be a little troubling. I hope this is not the case. Personally, I am treating anything regarding the 2007 AABC which is not from Ray Mills as not official. From this viewpoint, everything is pretty straightforward really.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Seems that F.G has been speaking (unofficially?) for the organizing committee though,

If people wish to conclude from my threads that I have been speaking for the organising committee, then I best say now that I have no authority, specific or implied, to speak on behalf of the AABC 2007, the AABA or the IBUs. When the world was venting its spleen on the issue of delayed results, I stepped in, firstly to inform that patience was needed, secondly to inform of why things went into a second week of judging. I did so on my own, without any direction or encouragement from others. If anyone construed that this was an official publication of the AABC 2007 organising committee, I apologise for the error.

When the second phase of this thread concerning the results came out, I again was errant in my judgement. I should not have mentioned the placegetters only EOS I had no authority to say that and I apologise for the mistake.

Let's get this clear, I am not and never have been an official voice of the AABC 2007 committee, nor do I have the right or did I intend to be or intend to be the unofficial voice of the AABC 2007.

That said, I am proud to have been part of the 2007 AABC and have seen first hand the tremendous amount of hard work done by Ray and his team to organise the comp. Only those who have organised similar events can understand what has been done. To have this effort belittled by the rants of a small handful of forum members who are assuming they have the right to whatever they think right is what has me angry. It is my opinion that you do not have the right to demand a damn thing except that which was promised, that your beers would be treated properly, presented as best as could be, at correct temperatures and that the judges would do their best to judge them properly to the BJCP guidelines. That end of the bargain was met. You cannot demand more. Lonte's approach was best. "Ask" I've no idea if and when an answer is coming because that is out of my hands.

Anyway, looks to me like heaps of votes for publishing all results, bugger all against...

Six for, one against and a few opinions that didn't say yeh or nah but had their two bobs worth. That means close to 100 competitors are silent on the issue. Barely conclusive.

Good brewing .

 

[blackbock]

If people wish to conclude from my threads that I have been speaking for the organising committee, then I best say now that I have no authority, specific or implied, to speak on behalf of the AABC 2007, the AABA or the IBUs.

The silence from the organising commitee has been deafening, at least in comparison to what some vocal individuals have contributed. FGZ, if you have not any authority to speak, then why have you been so vocal? Just sit back and listen to what some of the entering participants have to say. People are not happy and they are trying to get some kind of response from the organisers, not some apologist who may be keen, but misguided in his defence. Now I know why I shun this sort of amateur competition - a love of beer is one thing, but getting worked up about nothing is just ridiculous.

 

[Oblomov]

That said, I am proud to have been part of the 2007 AABC and have seen first hand the tremendous amount of hard work done by Ray and his team to organise the comp. Only those who have organised similar events can understand what has been done. To have this effort belittled by the rants of a small handful of forum members who are assuming they have the right to whatever they think right is what has me angry. It is my opinion that you do not have the right to demand a damn thing except that which was promised, that your beers would be treated properly, presented as best as could be, at correct temperatures and that the judges would do their best to judge them properly to the BJCP guidelines. That end of the bargain was met. You cannot demand more. Lonte's approach was best. "Ask" I've no idea if and when an answer is coming because that is out of my hands.

Hear hear.
As a general response to the other posters above: I would appreciate if people here speak for themselves and stop projecting their own complaints on others. I am an entering participant and I am happy. I am also grateful to the organisers/judges/whatever for the (undoubtedly) countless hours of their spare time they have spent to make this competition happen. However, I am a bit embarrassed by all the unreasonable ranting going on in this thread.

 

[Weizguy]

<abbrev>
Six for, one against and a few opinions that didn't say yeh or nah but had their two bobs worth. That means close to 100 competitors are silent on the issue. Barely conclusive.
</abbrev>

Even though I am 3 of those 100 competitors, I am aware that my voting bloc is quite small (though not insignificant).

I am not remaining silent, just silent on AHB.

I will be contacting Keith, who is my local delegate, and providing some feedback, as requested yesterday at the HAG case swap.

This whole palaver means so much to me that I have not even bothered to check the results. I'm sure that I would have been contacted if I had a significant result (some might call it a win).

I was going to use a metaphor about dogs walking around, sniffing each others butt and growling, but continuing to go around and around...but I'm obviously above that sort of crudeness. :lol:

Can we have this thread closed? Please?

Les W

 

[lagerman]

I think this is my first post.
I have read with interest all the comments on this thread.
May I make a few suggestions to you all please?
I run the Bathurst Comp. and have done so for the past 10 to 12 years with great success. As far as I am concerned we have a set of rules - like classes and catagories and we only publish the first three place getters and two highly commended. We have a closing date and a set fee and most of the things that all other comps. have.
In my opinion rules are rules regardless of who ever is running a homebrew comp. If I wanted to run a comp. with only Kit made American Pale Ales then that is up to me. If no one enters then that is my bad luck.
Please give whoever is running a homebrew comp. a pat on the back for having a go. Don't just be critical if something happens that you don't like. By all means lets have "Constructive Critisism" and we can all take something on board.
Let's give Ray and his crew a pat on the back. They organised and run 2 comps. right on top of one another.
For some reason we have never copped any flak over the Bathurst comp. We are not changing it as "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I have nothing against the BJCP but we are not adopting it as I don't have the time to re do all the paperwork.
In closing please all of you out there on the forum, give the organisers of a comp. (Whether it be a National Comp. or a country show) some more support and get out and give these guys a hand. Homebrew Comps are meant to be fun and run to a set of rules. I never hear anyone complaining because the can't enter a Hyundai Getz in the "Bathurst 1000".
All competitons have rules so lets support them.
Thanks for reading.
Lagerman - more commonly known as the Bigfella.

 

[Ross]

:icon_offtopic:

Welcome to the forum Lagerman & Happy Birthday

Cheers Ross

 

[dr K]

Hi Bigfella..

two things:

1. Its not just your size that gives you that particular moniker.

2. Bathurst has been known in the past to create statesmen, the tradition continues!!


Kurtz

 

[winkle]

Yup , happy birthday dude ( and change your name to LARGER man - it'll save confusion :lol: )

 

[Ray_Mills]

Hi all
Well.........where do i start, lets try the beginning eh, a long post for those that want to read.

The state competition in 2004 had a real problem as know one really was interested to run it, so I had a chat with Mel Robson from ESB and he suggested I give it a go as it might never ever happen again.

The IBU's and myself ran the NSW competition in 2004 in the garage of Tim Thomas rented house, it was a real entertaining experience as we lost a bottle and it was never found, I think Tim knocked it over and was not game to tell a soul. At the end of the judging over a period of some weeks to get it all done the results got out and everyone was happy, the brewer who lost the bottle really understood what had happened and took it in his stride. no complaints from him. It was don't worry have a home brew.

The following year 2005 we decided to run the competition at Five Islands Brewery, due to the current laws we could only judge in the morning till 12 noon and the competition was run over 3 weeks, The afternoons were great as the bar was open and we had a taste from the judging in the morning. Results went out and we had help from the Hunter Brewers at the time and it went very smooth.

In 2006 the hunter brewers ran the competition with great success but had a bad time from some members from the AABC committee with BJCP guidelines. All of a sudden it was starting to become serious, from some very serious brewers around Australia. At the end of 2006 I put my hand up to run the NSW and Nationals in conjunction with the Hunter Brewers. Not a problem as they can come down as we went up for the judging.

In the mean time a member from the AABC committee started getting very nasty and abusive to the NSW organisers and the Hunter brewers about BJCP problems. so they pulled out as they did not want to be involved with the committee and some of its members. So I said put me on the committee and let it go from there.

Being a member of this committee involed 100's of emails to get the BJCP Guidlines to suite Australian Conditions and come up with some results.

In the mean time, mid this year I got involved in a new business, so did my right hand man the hunter connection and my local Right hand man and the other had twins which would slow anyone down. The problem with my new business was I had to design some very important work to be constructed in Fiji and at this present time it is still going on, and it meant long, long hours, most nites till 11pm.

With this work load and some serious help gone I thought it through and it was too late to find anyone to run the NSW Competition. The Nationals was a real worry, so 2 months before I set the date for the Nationals I emailed the AABC committee that i might be will be struggling to run the nationals due to my current new work loads and could someone else do the job.

The response was "we only have 2 months to organise it" so I was left with doing it the best I could.

I have given the full results to the Organising Member of the AABC and have let him publish the full results if he wants too on the AABC site, in the mean time all Certificates have been printed and the score sheet will be sorted to brewers this weekend and all posted on Monday.

I am sorry I could not respond to postings as I have said I have to put my time to other important things at the moment.

At the end of the day, all competitors will have their results, all being judged by BJCP judges wanting to get their points up, the score sheets are very constructive and good evaluation of your beer. I think this forum and its members should have a hard think about who runs these competitions and whats involved, if you have never run one before, have a long think about it before you start complaining things are a little late. Just an example, I have had to read and answer over 300 emails, if i missed yours tough.

BTW who wants to run the NSW in 2008 and cop the abuse, just a warning, the fun is not there any more, bugger eh
Cheers
Ray

 

[browndog]

Hi Ray,
I've read you post and as a first time competitor in the AABC, would like to thank you for your efforts. I get the impression that you have had too much on your plate and you have done you best to run the AABC. I would however, ask that before you judge the guys here on this forum , and particularly early in this thread, and you will see that all people were asking is what is happening? there was no criticism, no derision., just competitors asking for some information. I think things started to get ugly no thanks to the belligerant comments from Fatgodzilla, and to a certain extent Capretta did not help much. This whole thread would have been negated with a couple of early comments from the organisers.
Once again I thank you and the other IBU guys for your efforts.


cheers

Browndog

 

[floppinab]

I think things started to get ugly no thanks to the belligerant comments from Fatgodzilla, and to a certain extent Capretta did not help much.
cheers

Browndog

Belligerent???? I would suggest that there were others who were out for some blood on this thread. FGZ particularly and cap seemed pretty defensive, descriptive and reasonable in their posts.

 

[browndog]

Belligerent???? I would suggest that there were others who were out for some blood on this thread. FGZ particularly and cap seemed pretty defensive, descriptive and reasonable in their posts.

Go back and read the thread at the start Floppinab (as I said above) then tell me I'm wrong mate.

 

[Screwtop]

All those that have any questions could you please email me at the email address on the web page, please do not PM me here as I have limited messages like all of you and if its full i might not get the message
Cheers
Ray

I did as you requested Ray, twice.

I am sorry I could not respond to postings as I have said I have to put my time to other important things at the moment.

I'm sure the comp was very important to the competitors, this is a bit of a slap in the face for them.

I have had to read and answer over 300 emails, if i missed yours tough.

Reading your post through I felt for you Ray, having to manage business, the comp and flack from the forum. Until I saw this sentence!

Surely you could have delegated responses to emails due to workload. I'm sorry that you feel castigated Ray, but I feel that such a response from a judge and committee member to be in pretty poor taste.