Are we even allowed to ask?

[AHB_Admin]

So you're allowed to ban for a personality conflict?

I was a part of the thread where that recent rule 9 violation occurred. Someone asked about buying kegs. Nev said he had kegs. I don't see the harm in that? Especially when another forum retail member had already mentioned a different retail member in that thread.

I'd prefer someone who comes out and says what they're thinking, even if I disagree with it, rather than make ********, backhanded, little remarks as seen a few posts above.

No. I do not want to give the number of the rule violated as I do not feel it's conducive to moving on, and it would be discussing the ban, which as stated I do not do.

Anyone who has had any interaction with me here knows I talk the to the mods and admins, and I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. In fact I go so far as to make sure there's not some sort of cultural difference leading to a misunderstanding.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

Don't see what me mentioning another retailer has to do with anything.

The rules state you cannot tout your own gear anywhere except your retail thread. I've been pulled up on it before, rules is rules, until they're not.

Then maybe there should be a rule about retailers "touting" other retailers gear. There could be a reason for it. You could just be mates and trying to direct sales his way, or for all we know, you could be wholesaling gear to him and effectively "touting" your own stuff through a proxy.

 

[Forever Wort]

I appreciate AHB for what its members have taught me about beer - especially in that exciting first year of brewing. With that said AHB is highly regulated as far as forums go and every ban is a dent in its armor, in my view.

Still, Nev shouldn't feel too bad. Excommunication by secret decree is personal rather than institutional and reflects only on the person with the power.

I've never really understood the quirky premise Aussie HB is built on (Americans?).

So many Internet tears.

:chug:

 

[Spiesy]

Then maybe there should be a rule about retailers "touting" other retailers gear. There could be a reason for it. You could just be mates and trying to direct sales his way, or for all we know, you could be wholesaling gear to him and effectively "touting" your own stuff through a proxy.

Could be, wasn't.

We don't wholesale kegs, in fact we don't deal with that particular retailer at all.

I was just an AHB member trying to help another AHB member out.

Didn't think it would be an issue, mate.

Edit: I should add, I would imagine most members here are mates with a retailer or two. Should they not be allowed to make recommendations either? Because I can tell you, everyone does it.

 

[SmallFry]

Must be a December thing

 

[manticle]

Then maybe there should be a rule about retailers "touting" other retailers gear. There could be a reason for it. You could just be mates and trying to direct sales his way, or for all we know, you could be wholesaling gear to him and effectively "touting" your own stuff through a proxy.

Really?

 

[Bridges]

It must be a difficult thing for retailers when someone is asking for help and the answer is a product you sell, I know rules are rules and all but I imagine it would be easy to break that rule when just trying to help.

 

[Spiesy]

It must be a difficult thing for retailers when someone is asking for help and the answer is a product you sell, I know rules are rules and all but I imagine it would be easy to break that rule when just trying to help.

Retailers are encouraged to PM the member directly.

 

[Bridges]

OK that makes sense then, so the member can jump on and post that the answer to my problem is product 'X' which I got from here...

 

[Spiesy]

OK that makes sense then, so the member can jump on and post that the answer to my problem is product 'X' which I got from here...

I guess, yeah.

 

[Feldon]

The only take-out I get from this is that if you chose to personally abuse the owner, admins, mods etc, don't do the courteous thing and do it by private PM.

No, do it in a public thread so other forum users can know the reason why you are (eventually) banned.

I also don't see why abuse received by private PM cannot be dealt with by a private ban on receipt of PM's from that person.

 

[technobabble66]

So you're allowed to ban for a personality conflict? ...

It might not be for having the actual conflict, it might be more the way the conflict was conducted.

I'd be of a similar mind to Mardoo - it's v sad to see long time members and brewers get struck down by the ban hammer. I've greatly appreciated Nev's input over the couple of years I've been following AHB.

Unfortunately people sometimes seem to get a bee in their bonnet about something (they believe is) unfair and their emotions get the better of them.
On the other hand, we're all adults and should be capable of behaving appropriately, not letting the red mist take over.

I know I'm still relatively new here, however I've noticed a big change over the past 2 years. And to be honest, I think it's generally much better for the absence of snarky comments, DASFFS's and various other bitchy comments/squabbles. At the same time there was a loss of some highly knowledgeable brewers due to their breaches of the enforced code of conduct. However, I get the impression there was a loss of many more great brewers previously due to the aforementioned bitchiness.
And most of us have to deal with people being arses on a regular basis in normal life. I for one don't want to come home to log into my favorite hobby forum and have to deal with more of them. If that comes at the cost of me not being one either, then so be it.
So I find the implementation of a stronger code of conduct to be much better for AHB overall.
I guess I'd see the likes of Nev as being a bit more like collateral damage. Someone who, like mardoo mentioned maybe, generally was doing the right thing and just got worked up over something (not the first time, as mentioned, but still quite infrequently).
I'm obviously making some broad assumptions here.
However, rules is rules.
And we're all adults, so should be behaving responsibly *and* respectfully.

Wish Nev all the best and sincerely thank him for his valuable input into the community.

 

[technobabble66]

The only take-out I get from this is that if you chose to personally abuse the owner, admins, mods etc, don't do the courteous thing and do it by private PM.

No, do it in a public thread so other forum users can know the reason why you are (eventually) banned.

I also don't see why abuse received by private PM cannot be dealt with by a private ban on receipt of PM's from that person.

I think the take-out is just don't abuse people on the forum. Period.
Surely that is not difficult.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I just can't see what reason someone would have for getting abusive, it's not that hard to show decorum online. Being drunk & having a brain explosion might be an excuse but it shouldn't be tolerated. Permanent bans really irk me though. An extended ban system (1week, 1 month etc depending on offence) has worked on other forums I've been a part of.

 

[Feldon]

I think the take-out is just don't abuse people on the forum. Period.
Surely that is not difficult.

Evidently it is.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

Really?

Not really, no. But it's just as illogical as the original rule to me. Anyway, it's far removed from the topic.

Do we even know if he did get abusive or are we just assuming? I've definitely said stuff I shouldn't have before, but if there's been aggressive, personal abuse, then I don't really have much of a defense, no matter how much I love Nev.

I also don't agree with a permanent ban either. I think it's pretty rare disputes can't be resolved.

 

[Dave70]

I just can't see what reason someone would have for getting abusive, it's not that hard to show decorum online. Being drunk & having a brain explosion might be an excuse but it shouldn't be tolerated. Permanent bans really irk me though. An extended ban system (1week, 1 month etc depending on offence) has worked on other forums I've been a part of.

I thought that was in place already, isn't it something like 3 strikes and you're out?

Repeated Breaches

Any member who continues to breach the rules of the site after having content deleted (i.e. reposts deleted material), or receiving a PM warning from a moderator will have their account suspended for 24 hours. Repeat offenses after this will result in a one week ban, followed by revocation of membership.


And honestly, if a grown adult needs to be told that many times to pull their head in, it's unlikely they're going to change their ways.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

maybe 24hrs isn't enough for people to cool off, I don't know, I'm not one of them.

 

[wally]

I thought that was in place already, isn't it something like 3 strikes and you're out?

Repeated Breaches

Any member who continues to breach the rules of the site after having content deleted (i.e. reposts deleted material), or receiving a PM warning from a moderator will have their account suspended for 24 hours. Repeat offenses after this will result in a one week ban, followed by revocation of membership.


And honestly, if a grown adult needs to be told that many times to pull their head in, it's unlikely they're going to change their ways.

Spare a thought for the guys who got banned last year during the "Great Purge".

I know of one member who was banned, and the site owner or admin didn't even have the courtesy to advise him why he was banned.

 

[mckenry]

Obviously most of us will never know the whole truth. Nev however, obviously has had issues in the past. I assume the correct procedures were followed and that he continued to break the rules??
Being a retailer and this being the most frequented HB forum, I would imagine it was in his best (business) interests to toe the line.
I think he has made a huge mistake.
Unfortunate as he was a good contributor.