Are we even allowed to ask?

[Dave70]

maybe 24hrs isn't enough for people to cool off, I don't know, I'm not one of them.

Me neither.
I'm more the seething type.

 

[manticle]

Not really, no. But it's just as illogical as the original rule to me. Anyway, it's far removed from the topic.

OT yes but the original rule is simply to stop retailers flogging products at every opportunity. Retailer tag currently costs nothing so it's essentially free advertising. There are specific threads in specific forums that enable retailers to do their spruiking (sponsors are bound by similar rules although they pay for their space) and rules preventing them interrupting other retail and sponsor threads with negativity or competition.

They have a space to advertise, it's discouraged to do it elsewhere as it clutters up threads. Most retailers get it right most of the time, ocassionally there are some crossed wires. I don't think it's a big deal.

Do we even know if he did get abusive or are we just assuming? I've definitely said stuff I shouldn't have before, but if there's been aggressive, personal abuse, then I don't really have much of a defense, no matter how much I love Nev.

I also don't agree with a permanent ban either. I think it's pretty rare disputes can't be resolved.

I'm not big on permanent bans either and I very much believe in dispute resolution where possible. I wasn't involved with the ban and don't know the specifics but I do know it wasn't the first time and he has had short term bans and warnings before.

I also regret seeing long term users with valuable knowledge go but remember there's compromise between gathering knowledgeable, informative membership and discouraging certain behaviour towards both members and staff (who are also members). If someone was strongly abusive towards a member, there's an expectation that mods/admin deal with it. I can't see it being different when the target is part of mod/admin. OBS was a paid sponsor so I doubt the decision was taken lightly.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Just wondering......why

Boy did this thread go OT.

I was actually pondering the meaning of life and all that deep existential stuff and put it out there....why?

Why are we here?, Why is the sky blue? Why do my socks go missing in the wash? Why does Cocko evoke slightly tingly and unnatural feeling in so many brewers?

Just wondering.....why????

 

[Bridges]

Boy did this thread go OT.

I was actually pondering the meaning of life and all that deep existential stuff and put it out there....why?

Why are we here?, Why is the sky blue? Why do my socks go missing in the wash? Why does Cocko evoke slightly tingly and unnatural feeling in so many brewers?

Just wondering.....why????

42

 

[droid]

when people are not behaving appropriately, when their actions, words or behaviour is unacceptable , where possible I think it is important to separate the person from the behaviour, we don't want to be telling people that they are unacceptable, it is the behaviour that is unacceptable and give them an opportunity to change that behaviour er ~ such as mine the other day

<edit> to me it is understandable that people want to know what genre? of behaviour was it that was unnacceptable, don't need specifics but the model of learning is:

action - feedback-reflection-new understanding

 

[AHB_Admin]

I appreciate AHB for what its members have taught me about beer - especially in that exciting first year of brewing. With that said AHB is highly regulated as far as forums go and every ban is a dent in its armor, in my view.

Still, Nev shouldn't feel too bad. Excommunication by secret decree is personal rather than institutional and reflects only on the person with the power.

I've never really understood the quirky premise Aussie HB is built on (Americans?).

So many Internet tears.

:chug:

I get into this from time to time and it frustrates me. What does my nationality have to do with the way things are ran? I don't have a team of American Mods seeing to the rules and deciding things now do I? Nope. They are your Aussie Brothers one and all. I'm sure they will also verify for me that I have made no unilateral decisions, and that changes in policy, rule infringements, etc, are discussed thoroughly.

Before I came here the rules were ambiguous at best, and the number one complaint was uneven enforcement,and improper application. That was resolved,and we're moving along quite nicely.

So that I'm clear, any ban not put out into the forum is a secret ban? Because I didn't share the word by word and reason it's some sort of cabal? Please explain.

It must be a difficult thing for retailers when someone is asking for help and the answer is a product you sell, I know rules are rules and all but I imagine it would be easy to break that rule when just trying to help.

Retailers are encouraged to PM the member directly.

Yup. If not, all threads get turned into ads. I don't want that, nor do I feel it will serve the community well.

The only take-out I get from this is that if you chose to personally abuse the owner, admins, mods etc, don't do the courteous thing and do it by private PM.

No, do it in a public thread so other forum users can know the reason why you are (eventually) banned.

I also don't see why abuse received by private PM cannot be dealt with by a private ban on receipt of PM's from that person.

Don't do it all. I'm very reasonable. Talk to me like a human being worthy of your words. You will have no issues from me.

I think the take-out is just don't abuse people on the forum. Period.
Surely that is not difficult.

I think not, but it can be.

I just can't see what reason someone would have for getting abusive, it's not that hard to show decorum online. Being drunk & having a brain explosion might be an excuse but it shouldn't be tolerated. Permanent bans really irk me though. An extended ban system (1week, 1 month etc depending on offence) has worked on other forums I've been a part of.

I appreciate what you're saying, but this is the straw that broke the camels back.

Spare a thought for the guys who got banned last year during the "Great Purge".

I know of one member who was banned, and the site owner or admin didn't even have the courtesy to advise him why he was banned.

I don't have contact after the ban. Unless they have my personal email, how am I supposed to let them know?

Boy did this thread go OT.

I was actually pondering the meaning of life and all that deep existential stuff and put it out there....why?

Why are we here?, Why is the sky blue? Why do my socks go missing in the wash? Why does Cocko evoke slightly tingly and unnatural feeling in so many brewers?

Just wondering.....why????

There is no why.

 

[Feldon]

Austin.

You avoided my previous point: "I also don't see why abuse received by private PM cannot be dealt with by a private ban on receipt of PM's from that person."

 

[Blind Dog]

Just my 2c, but I quite like the rules. They're clear and unambiguous, have pretty clear consequences for breach and from what I see are applied sensibly. Not sure I'd want to participate in a forum where that wasn't true.

 

[DU99]

:icon_offtopic: people tend to forget you can block messages/pm's thru my setting's "ignore" Preferences...

 

[MastersBrewery]

:icon_offtopic: people tend to forget you can block messages/pm's thru my setting's "ignore" Preferences...

Though I don't believe it would be appropriate for MODS/AMIN block any user.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Austin.

You avoided my previous point: "I also don't see why abuse received by private PM cannot be dealt with by a private ban on receipt of PM's from that person."

Feldon, that would be nice if it always worked and that has been done before, however when the pm's continue without stopping regardless of what is explained to that member and they become more aggressive then at some point a line has to be drawn.

As far as why was someone banned? Look at it this way, if a member is banned it is always for breaking one or more of the site rules continuously or being abusive to another member or staff or as has happened in the past threats of violence, in our eyes everyone deserves a measure of privacy and as such posting the reasons for a particular members ban would not be respecting their privacy, there is no reason to drag it out in the open just to appease other members curiosity.

Suffice to say that every member who has been banned has been given ample opportunity to stop doing what it is that is giving other members reason to report them. Does anyone seriously think we like banning members? that's counter productive to the idea of what AHB is and banning a sponsor is certainly not something that we would ever want to do if it could possibly be helped.

I notice a few references to Austin and his nationality, I'd like to say right now that at no time since Austin took over the reigns here has he ever made changes to the running of AHB without first consulting with the admin team, changes are made after discussion with staff and in some cases the staff has overruled the changes and Austin has been happy to take our advice. He very rarely plays much of a part in the moderating side of the forum as he feels that should be left to the all Australian moderation team. What Austins nationality has to do with this is beyond me.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Oh and as far as someone being banned and not knowing the reason for it, when a member ban is generated a reason for the ban is requested in the form, this reason is then emailed to the member automatically for their clarity. Although if it gets to this stage the member would be more than aware what he is being banned for.

 

[Dave70]

Why does Cocko evoke slightly tingly and unnatural feeling in so many brewers?

Its the deviously subliminal 'smoking meat' thread would be my guess.

 

[Forever Wort]

I get into this from time to time and it frustrates me. What does my nationality have to do with the way things are ran? I don't have a team of American Mods seeing to the rules and deciding things now do I? Nope. They are your Aussie Brothers one and all. I'm sure they will also verify for me that I have made no unilateral decisions, and that changes in policy, rule infringements, etc, are discussed thoroughly.

Before I came here the rules were ambiguous at best, and the number one complaint was uneven enforcement,and improper application. That was resolved,and we're moving along quite nicely.

So that I'm clear, any ban not put out into the forum is a secret ban? Because I didn't share the word by word and reason it's some sort of cabal? Please explain.

No hard feelings old chap. Your nationality has nothing to do with how things are run. It is simply absurd that Aussie Home Brewers is oxymoronically beholden to the bald eagle. Obviously you will continue to hear this from time to time.

And yes, if you don't share the reasons behind an excommunication then you are implying there is something to hide. With power comes responsibility. Forums are communities.
:beer:

 

[Feldon]

Feldon, that would be nice if it always worked and that has been done before, however when the pm's continue without stopping regardless of what is explained to that member and they become more aggressive then at some point a line has to be drawn.

That makes no sense at all. How can one be aware of the content of PMs if one has blocked receipt of PMs from that person.

So I ask it again (of Austin): Why can't abuse you receive by private PM be ignored henceforth by simply blocking receipt of further PM's from that person?

 

[mje1980]

No hard feelings old chap. Your nationality has nothing to do with how things are run. It is simply absurd that Aussie Home Brewers is oxymoronically beholden to the bald eagle. Obviously you will continue to hear this from time to time.

And yes, if you don't share the reasons behind an excommunication then you are implying there is something to hide. With power comes responsibility. Forums are communities.
:beer:

What a load of ****, respectfully

 

[Batz]

I would like to suggest we all move right along now and get back to discussing things like brewing, and drinking good beers.

 

[AndrewQLD]

That makes no sense at all. How can one be aware of the content of PMs if one has blocked receipt of PMs from that person.

So I ask it again (of Austin): Why can't abuse you receive by private PM be ignored henceforth by simply blocking receipt of further PM's from that person?

Even though you are not asking me I will answer anyway,
Because as an owner, admin or moderator it would be counter productive to block messages or pms from members, we need to be contactable regardless.

I'll pose another question, why can't the member NOT message/pm abuse?

 

[Feldon]

Even though you are not asking me I will answer anyway,
Because as an owner, admin or moderator it would be counter productive to block messages or pms from members, we need to be contactable regardless.

I'll pose another question, why can't the member NOT message/pm abuse?

The issue that led to the banning is clearly a personal one solely between Austin and Nev, not between Nev and the other Admins and Mods etc.

And don't tell me otherwise. Austin put it clearly on p.1 of this thread: "I think it's a personal issue best left between the banned and the person doing it... It's a personality conflict and I would like to leave it at that."

So if Austin simply hit the ignore button to ban receipt of further PMs from Nev, that would leave Austin in peace of mind and Nev open to contact with you and other site officials. No counter-productivity there.

Bradsbrews (Admin) stated what's really going on here on p.1 : "[SIZE=medium]Long story short, if you get nasty via pm and emails to the owner, the owner's not going to put up with it."[/SIZE]

Attempts to explain this otherwise appear to be weak.

 

[madpierre06]

Seems to me that the explanations given were trying to be respectful to the banned person and the specific reasons kept private which is more than fair enough, and many respondents here have simply been unwilling to let it go.

Bradsbrews (Admin) stated what's really going on here on p.1 : "[SIZE=medium]Long story short, if you get nasty via pm and emails to the owner, the owner's not going to put up with it."[/SIZE]

It's easy....don't get nasty.