Are lagers really worth the bother?

[Adr_0]

With the extra time it takes to ferment and the space it will take up in the fridge for however many weeks while its lagering, is it worth the trouble for something that me and the Missus will polish off on a Th/Fri/Sat?
Discuss.

Can you do a double batch, to at least last you till Mon/Tues?

 

[verysupple]

I should also day that a cold crash serves a very different purpose to a lagering period. You want the yeast to still be working during the lagering period, then dropping out bit by bit. You should also start to drop with a few points left, eg 1018-1820 for an expected FG of 1010-1012.

A cold crash is generally done for ale yeasts at final gravity to clear out yeast that hasn't flocculated, and generally involves a much sharper drop in temp.

See what I mean about the traditionalists.

 

[MHB]

In the 170 odd years since Pilsner made its debut, the beer drinkers of the world have gone from being all Ale drinkers to 90% Lager /Pilsner drinkers.
When you think that Lager is harder to make costs more (energy) and takes longer, there must be some reason why we prefer it.
Mark

 

[dent]

I wonder, on a massive commercial basis, if there is any cost benefit to brewing lagers -- if brewing ales was cheaper to do -- whether the marketing engine of CUB et al would have much trouble convincing the punters to drink it.

 

[Spiesy]

In the 170 odd years since Pilsner made its debut, the beer drinkers of the world have gone from being all Ale drinkers to 90% Lager /Pilsner drinkers.
When you think that Lager is harder to make costs more (energy) and takes longer, there must be some reason why we prefer it.
Mark

It's the pop music of beer. Doesn't necessarily make it the best.

Beauty. Eye. Beer holder... of course.

 

[poggor]

I make tasting notes about every batch I brew. I was looking back at them recently and all the best comments i noticed are from my lagers....

 

[verysupple]

This may be getting a bit OT, but recent posts got me thinking...

I've been brewing for a while now but only a few batches have been experimental, the rest have been (intending) to stick to a classic style. I'm wondering why there aren't more very pale styles of ales (i.e. Pilsner-ish coloured ales). I mean there's Kolsch, but not much else that I'm aware of. Is it the extra character ale yeasts give that over power the subtle malt flavour? Why is it that there aren't many very pale ales?

 

[Spiesy]

This may be getting a bit OT, but recent posts got me thinking...

I've been brewing for a while now but only a few batches have been experimental, the rest have been (intending) to stick to a classic style. I'm wondering why there aren't more very pale styles of ales (i.e. Pilsner-ish coloured ales). I mean there's Kolsch, but not much else that I'm aware of. Is it the extra character ale yeasts give that over power the subtle malt flavour? Why is it that there aren't many very pale ales?

I'd imagine it would limit your malt selection dramatically. Most specialty malts contain colour.

 

[MHB]

It's the pop music of beer. Doesn't necessarily make it the best.

Beauty. Eye. Beer holder... of course.

Never said it made it "best". There are some wonderful lagers in the world and lots of great ales to.
As for coloured malt, probably the biggest range of coloured malts comes from Germany, the home of lager and they are all or can be used in lager brewing. The range of lager probably tops at at Baltic Porter, Eisbock or one of the Schwarzbier which are all pretty much opaque black at their darkest.

Lager is a challenging style to brew, can be a lot of fun but it really does require the brewer to do everything right, makes a good test of any brewers skills.
Mark

 

[Adr_0]

See what I mean about the traditionalists.

Ha ha, I know... put it down to inexperience.

We'll have to swap lagers one day... that is, once I get some more experience and ditch these old principles. Or at least until this latest (first at new house) is done (6 weeks?).

 

[peas_and_corn]

I'd imagine it would limit your malt selection dramatically. Most specialty malts contain colour.

This, and really pale pilsner malt is a recent invention, plus needing more malt character to go along with the yeast character

 

[fraser_john]

So I guess you make a shitload of lager in winter, lager it for 3-6 months, for summer?

Fermentation chamber/fridge hasn't cost me much, and I get to brew whatever I want, whenever I want.

No not really, two or three max during winter and I really don't "lager" it in the traditional sense at 2-3c. Bring it up to 20c for a week to let the yeast clean up any left overs and then just leave it sitting around in a glass carboy on the cold floor. I do sometimes keg one and leave it in the serving fridge for a few weeks before serving so guess that could be considered a traditional lagering.

 

[klangers]

I wonder, on a massive commercial basis, if there is any cost benefit to brewing lagers -- if brewing ales was cheaper to do -- whether the marketing engine of CUB et al would have much trouble convincing the punters to drink it.

The big breweries do not lager (ie store cold on yeast) their beers. They filter the shit out of them to give a completely clear beer. When using these methods the difference in production cost is negligible.

 

[pipsyboy]

Ok guys.

The lager has been in my fermenting fridge for a couple of years now.

Took 4+ days for the fermentation to start, left it about another 7 days at 11 degrees then upped the temp to 18 (in 24hrs) and left it there for 3 days which brings us up to now. I'm going to use one of the methods suggested above which says to drop the temp to about zero and leave for 3-4 days. Do I do this in primary or can I rack to a cube? if it has to stay in primary then that will take up so much room in my keg fridge that I won't be able to get a keg in there and this will defo be my first and last 'true' lager.

 

[panzerd18]

The lager has been in my fermenting fridge for a couple of years now.

:unsure:

 

[TimT]

When you think that Lager is harder to make costs more (energy) and takes longer, there must be some reason why we prefer it.

I'd be interested in finding out more about that, Mark.

I'm still not sure why lager took off in such a big way through the mid-to late 19th century and throughout the 20th century. Flavour and beer quality explain something about its popularity but not everything. It must have been a combination of other factors too - publicity, the involvement of big beer companies that had the resources to brew something as demanding as a lager and so differentiate themselves from smaller brewers who may only have been able to do ales, even some pro-German snobbery (the British royal family is German, which was accepted - even celebrated - prior to the 1st world war).

 

[TheWiggman]

Took 4+ days for the fermentation to start, left it about another 7 days at 11 degrees then upped the temp to 18 (in 24hrs) and left it there for 3 days which brings us up to now. I'm going to use one of the methods suggested above which says to drop the temp to about zero and leave for 3-4 days. Do I do this in primary or can I rack to a cube? if it has to stay in primary then that will take up so much room in my keg fridge that I won't be able to get a keg in there and this will defo be my first and last 'true' lager.

Can you confirm it's reached FG? 4 days is a long time to start, hope you haven't underpitched. If you have I'd be surprised if it's reached FG with a 5% brew in 10 days.
You can certainly rack into a cube but be careful of your techniques (i.e. sanitised, squirt with CO2, no splashing). The purpose of the 3-4 days at zero is to drop particles out of solution to the bottom of the FV or secondary. Up to you. I personally give it about 10 days at 3°C to drop the last few points for reasons which has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum. THEN cold crash, then store for 3 weeks in the beer fridge before drinking.

Sounds to me like you need a fermenting fridge

 

[pipsyboy]

Can you confirm it's reached FG? 4 days is a long time to start, hope you haven't underpitched. If you have I'd be surprised if it's reached FG with a 5% brew in 10 days.
You can certainly rack into a cube but be careful of your techniques (i.e. sanitised, squirt with CO2, no splashing). The purpose of the 3-4 days at zero is to drop particles out of solution to the bottom of the FV or secondary. Up to you. I personally give it about 10 days at 3°C to drop the last few points for reasons which has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum. THEN cold crash, then store for 3 weeks in the beer fridge before drinking.

Sounds to me like you need a fermenting fridge

I've got a fermenting fridge but it's a dead one and would struggle to get the temp low enough to lager.

I'm so pissed off with the whole process that I'm tempted to just cold crash for a few days and drink the ******* anyway no matter how shite. Learn from it (never again) and move on. For me it's just not worth the bother.

 

[Grott]

My take on this is whether you like/prefer lager and have the appropriate equipment/setup to achieve good results. I'm not one for lager and brew bitter styles and stouts. One thing though, many a newbie has attempted the lager (as that's what they like or was in the home brew kit) and the very disappointed result as deterred them from brewing again, so sad.
Cheers

 

[Blind Dog]

When you think that Lager is harder to make costs more (energy) and takes longer, there must be some reason why we prefer it.

I'd be interested in finding out more about that, Mark.

I'm still not sure why lager took off in such a big way through the mid-to late 19th century and throughout the 20th century. Flavour and beer quality explain something about its popularity but not everything. It must have been a combination of other factors too - publicity, the involvement of big beer companies that had the resources to brew something as demanding as a lager and so differentiate themselves from smaller brewers who may only have been able to do ales, even some pro-German snobbery (the British royal family is German, which was accepted - even celebrated - prior to the 1st world war).

Interesting link (no idea of provenance): http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/history.html

English beer was also rapdily becoming paler at the same time (maybe as glass became ubiquitous making a clear, pale beer popular?). There are stories of German & Czech brewers visitng the UK to learn pale ale / malt making techniques and using that knowledge to brew the first pale lagers.

No idea why crap like Bud, VB and (IMO the worst of the lot) Carling Black Label became near ubiquitous though