Apa Nelsonfwh And Cascade At Omin ?

[GreggJ]

Any one tried Nelson Sauvin FWH and cascade at 0min for an Amercan Pale Ale?
Any Recipes or Hopping schedule to share would be good.
Cheers

 

[newguy]

Not in an APA but an american barleywine. Did roughly a 65/35% split between bittering and late hop additions with 100 IBU total. Late hops were 50/50 split between NS and Cascade. Also dry hopped with Riwaka (D Saaz) and Amarillo. Turned out really well.

 

[Stuster]

I made this APA a couple of years back and it did alright at Bathurst. I'm sure FWH and a final addition at knock off would work well too. I think those two hops play well together.

Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 24.51 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 13.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 43.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.25 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 56.25 %
1.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.Grain 37.50 %
0.25 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 6.25 %
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.90 %] (60 min) Hops 29.7 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade/NS mix [6.80 %] (15 min) Hops 6.3 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade/NS mix [6.80 %] (10 min) Hops 4.6 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade/NS mix [6.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade/NS mix [6.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
20.00 gm Cascade/NS mix [6.80 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) Yeast-Ale

It does seem that the balance here is just about the 65/35 mix of early/late bitterness that you are talking about newguy.

 

[newguy]

It does seem that the balance here is just about the 65/35 mix of early/late bitterness that you are talking about newguy.

I'm always pleased to discover I'm not totally full of it.

 

[Fourstar]

I think those two hops play well together.

Thats the reason why they are the hops in Fat Yak by Matilda Bay.
http://www.ramsgatehotel.com.au/Fat%20Yak.doc
Yum! :icon_drunk:

 

[Pollux]

After having had a Fat Yak or two the other day I'm trying to workout a recipe based on what I have here....

Current plan

Recipe: Chubby Yak
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 30.23 L
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 18.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 38.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 72.07 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBGrain 18.02 %
0.40 kg Crystal Malt -Bairds (110.0 EBC) Grain 7.21 %
0.15 kg Carared (Weyermann) (47.3 EBC) Grain 2.70 %
10.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 5.6 IBU
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (60 min) Hops 11.6 IBU
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (20 min) Hops 14.1 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (20 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Safale US-05 (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: !-BIAB Single Infusion, Medium body, No MO
Total Grain Weight: 5.55 kg
----------------------------
!-BIAB Single Infusion, Medium body, No MO
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Infusion Add 34.00 L of water at 69.9 C 67.0 C

 

[3G]

Possibly along these lines
FWH is based on utilisation of 25 min boil
Will prob dry hop at .7gm/lt


A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.90 Wort Size (L): 40.90
Total Grain (kg): 8.70
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.49
Anticipated SRM: 9.6
Anticipated IBU: 78.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
57.5 5.00 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 3
40.2 3.50 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 8
2.3 0.20 kg. Crystal 150L Great Britain 1.033 150

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
94.05 g. Nelson Sauvin Whole 11.00 78.0 61 min.
41.58 g. Cascade Whole 5.75 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

 

[Fourstar]

Possibly along these lines
FWH is based on utilisation of 25 min boil

Why is it when i use FWH in beersmith its usualy a few IBU points higher than a 60 min addition if this is true??!!?

Either way, i would personally go

OG 1.050
34 IBU
6.2 SRM/Lov

87% JW Ale or Pilsner malt, your choice.
7% Weyermann Munich I
3.5% Weyermann Carapils
2.5% JW Caramalt

FWH NelsonSauvin to 20 IBU
5 IBU Cascade 10 Min
9 IBU Nelson Sauvin 10 Min
1g/L Nelson Sauvin Flame out
1g/L Cascade Flame out


Pretty much a clone right there!

 

[3G]

I have adjusted the utilisation from the preset pro mash utilisation to the lower amount after reading pages and pages on AHB.
I think the general thoughts are you do get the bitterness of a 60 min boil but it is smoother, more like a 20 min boil. Be prepared for some backlash on that comment thou.
It will be only my second FWH beer

 

[Fourstar]

I have adjusted the utilisation from the preset pro mash utilisation to the lower amount after reading pages and pages on AHB.
I think the general thoughts are you do get the bitterness of a 60 min boil but it is smoother, more like a 20 min boil. Be prepared for some backlash on that comment thou.
It will be only my second FWH beer

Doesnt that mean it gives the percieved bitterness of a 20 minute addition not actually 20mins of IBU

much like how 30IBU of hopburst (less than 20 mins in the boil) tastes different to 30 IBU from a 60 min boil addition

 

[3G]

F@*k knows, havent tried it yet. Will brew Saturday night and get back to you in a few weeks ,

 

[browndog]

I'm not sure if NS will leave any character in a full boil, but why would you want to use it in an APA in the first place (unless you have run out of hops)

cheers

Browndog

 

[Stuster]

Huh. :unsure:

You don't like Nelson Sauvin, Browndog? :blink:

 

[browndog]

Huh. :unsure:

You don't like Nelson Sauvin, Browndog? :blink:

LOVE IT...................... but how does it relate to an APA ??


cheers

Browndog

 

[Bribie G]

Pollux:
BIAB

:icon_offtopic: off topic re the hops but with the higher OGs over 50 and heading up to 60 I'm getting nervous about too much goodness remaining in the grains that get chucked and your post nudged me a bit with the "NO Mashout" note in the recipe.

I'm making a Newcastle Brown attempt as it used to be made in the days when five pints would get a County Durham Hard man coal miner legless and probably aiming for 1060. I'm considering, at end of mash, draining about six litres into a stockpot, then doing a good old mashout with another stockpot of very hot water (lucky I've got 2 stockpots haha). Pull the bag, drain and squeeze then tip the six litres of first runnings back in and do a good 90 min boil to get the OG back up.

back on topic: I have found a fantastic hop in APAs to be NZ BSaaz (not to be confused with Euro Saaz) - It out Amarillos Amarillo IMHO and with the Nelson Sauvin I'm tantalized by the thought of doing an all Kiwi APA (KPA????) Maybe a long boil with some initial Green Bullet would complete the trifecta?

Reviled: your'e on !!! :icon_cheers:

 

[browndog]

Pollux:
BIAB

:icon_offtopic: off topic re the hops but with the higher OGs over 50 and heading up to 60 I'm getting nervous about too much goodness remaining in the grains that get chucked and your post nudged me a bit with the "NO Mashout" note in the recipe.

I'm making a Newcastle Brown attempt as it used to be made in the days when five pints would get a County Durham Hard man coal miner legless and probably aiming for 1060. I'm considering, at end of mash, draining about six litres into a stockpot, then doing a good old mashout with another stockpot of very hot water (lucky I've got 2 stockpots haha). Pull the bag, drain and squeeze then tip the six litres of first runnings back in and do a good 90 min boil to get the OG back up.

back on topic: I have found a fantastic hop in APAs to be NZ BSaaz (not to be confused with Euro Saaz) - It out Amarillos Amarillo IMHO and with the Nelson Sauvin I'm tantalized by the thought of doing an all Kiwi APA (KPA????) Maybe a long boil with some initial Green Bullet would complete the trifecta?

Reviled: your'e on !!! :icon_cheers:

Your onto something there BG, a KPA, something to showcase all these brilliant Kiwi hops. New Zealanders, time to get a unique style going.....Reviled, kick it off.


cheers

Browndog

 

[Stuster]

You're right, Browndog.

KPA FTW!

 

[newguy]

I have adjusted the utilisation from the preset pro mash utilisation to the lower amount after reading pages and pages on AHB.
I think the general thoughts are you do get the bitterness of a 60 min boil but it is smoother, more like a 20 min boil. Be prepared for some backlash on that comment thou.

...and here it is. A FWH addition adds more bitterness than a 60 or even 90 minute boil. Don't count the FWH as equivalent to a 20 min addition as your beer will be way more bitter than you bargained for. FWH does add a significant hop flavour, but it's not the same total IBUs as a 20 min addition.

 

[clean brewer]

...and here it is. A FWH addition adds more bitterness than a 60 or even 90 minute boil. Don't count the FWH as equivalent to a 20 min addition as your beer will be way more bitter than you bargained for. FWH does add a significant hop flavour, but it's not the same total IBUs as a 20 min addition.

Beersmiths default for FWH is 10% more bitterness, maybe in FWH, you could reduce the amount of Hops used by 10%??

 

[newguy]

What I was trying to get across is that FWH is not equivalent to a 20 or 25 min addition. A FWH beer is unique and delicious and completely different from a beer that has a 20 or 25 min hop addition. I think it was Gregg J that mentioned that based on discussions here, he tweaked his s/w to treat a FWH addition as being the same as a 25 min addition. I chimed in because based on my experience, I know that's not true. The unanticipated IBUs will push the beer way over the edge in terms of bitterness.