Anybody in AU selling those mini oxygen regulators for disposable tank

[slash22000]

So you can get the 8ppm required for ale yeast with air.

I don't think anybody is arguing that you NEED an oxygen system, obviously thousands of people make beer without it every day. Yes, a maximum saturation of air will give you minimum required oxygen levels.

The way I see it though, if you're going to spend thousands on brewing equipment - fridges, pots, chillers, Braumeisters, kegerators, etc etc - for the sake of a better beer, why disregard oxygen as a factor? We pay so much attention to yeast pitching rates, temperatures, hot/cold breaks, chilling, finings, cold crashing etc to produce a superior brew, so why not oxygen? It's a relatively inexpensive addition to a brewery and has a demonstrated benefit to every beer you make, especially at higher gravity.

 

[browndog]

It was related to your post, the one directly above it, suggesting that plain air will give the same o2 saturation rate as pure o2.

The subject of aeration/oxygenation with pure o2 has been done to death. The benefits of o2 v's plain air are well known and documented, as are the maximum oxygenation saturation rates for the various air infusion methods. There's no reason to question any of it.

I never said you would get the same level of saturation mate. I said it takes longer. And as Slashes post shows, you can achieve 8ppm with air which is the minimum required dose for ale yeast. So by saying "Thing is even if you shook the fermentor for a month, or used a pump to pump in air, you'd never get the recommended oxygen saturation" is misleading.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

:icon_offtopic: dont want to derail the thread but is there evidence that the beer actually tastes better using O2 or is this inferred because the yeasties work faster/more efficiently? Sorry for derail......
Cheers
BBB

 

[stux]

I never said you would get the same level of saturation mate. I said it takes longer.

Actually, I believe you did.

And you just said it again too.

The point is, it doesn't just take longer. It doesn't happen at all.

 

[stux]

:icon_offtopic: dont want to derail the thread but is there evidence that the beer actually tastes better using O2 or is this inferred because the yeasties work faster/more efficiently? Sorry for derail......
Cheers
BBB

Anecdotally, I believe my beer tastes better

 

[slash22000]

:icon_offtopic: dont want to derail the thread but is there evidence that the beer actually tastes better using O2 or is this inferred because the yeasties work faster/more efficiently? Sorry for derail......
Cheers
BBB

I don't have any graphs or anything in front of me, but it's a matter of yeast health, especially in high gravity beers. Consider low oxygen levels being similar to under-pitching yeast. Imagine you're limited to a single packet of yeast. That'll be enough for some beers but not for others. In some huge beers it won't be anywhere near enough. That's basically the matter of air VS pure oxygen.

You need a certain O2 level for the healthiest yeast and it's not possible to reach that saturation of oxygen from plain air. It's (obviously) possible to reach enough O2 saturation for fermentation to start and finish, but it's not ideal conditions for your yeast. It's enough, but it's not "good".

In high OG wort or with certain yeast strains, there is no way to reach adequate oxygen saturation without pure O2.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

I don't have any graphs or anything in front of me, but it's a matter of yeast health, especially in high gravity beers. Consider low oxygen levels being similar to under-pitching yeast. Imagine you're limited to a single packet of yeast. That'll be enough for some beers but not for others. In some huge beers it won't be anywhere near enough. That's basically the matter of air VS pure oxygen.

You need a certain O2 level for the healthiest yeast and it's not possible to reach that saturation of oxygen from plain air. It's (obviously) possible to reach enough O2 saturation for fermentation to start and finish, but it's not ideal conditions for your yeast. It's enough, but it's not "good".

In high OG wort or with certain yeast strains, there is no way to reach adequate oxygen saturation without pure O2.

Thanks for that - I still wonder though if someone could actually taste a difference in a randomised trial ...... O2 beer vs shake the shit out of the cube beer??
Cheers
BBB

 

[slash22000]

Effectively, you're eliminating a variable, much like fermenting at a certain temperature or calculating your yeast pitching rate eliminates variables.

Wort without adequate oxygen equals:

- Low and sticky fermentation
- Off flavours
- Poor yeast crop
- Low ester/ alcohol production

Shaking the cube might give you enough oxygen, it might not. On a standard gravity beer <1.060 OG, it probably will. But if you can inject oxygen, you eliminate that variable. You know for a fact that low oxygen will never be a problem. I'm willing to spend a bit of money on that.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

Effectively, you're eliminating a variable, much like fermenting at a certain temperature or calculating your yeast pitching rate eliminates variables.

Wort without adequate oxygen equals:

- Low and sticky fermentation
- Off flavours
- Poor yeast crop
- Low ester/ alcohol production

Shaking the cube might give you enough oxygen, it might not. On a standard gravity beer <1.060 OG, it probably will. But if you can inject oxygen, you eliminate that variable. You know for a fact that low oxygen will never be a problem. I'm willing to spend a bit of money on that.

O2 is the variable - the amount of it is the question. Anyway if you guys keep feeding your yeasties from the bottle we'll create yeasties who only want to be bottle fed - it's a slippery slope
Cheers
BBB

 

[CONNOR BREWARE]

Sorry for any disappointment, we've been consolidating and working hard on an expansion that will be ready for release shortly.

We have a shipment landing in about 4 or 5 days and some very flexible brewers have been patiently waiting since a glitch on our site let them order when we unexpectedly ran out of stock. We will be offering said brewers a 10% discount on their next purchase.

For anyone else who is certain they want a kit let me know and we can organise a per-order. They should be on the shelf by Friday.

Cheers

Ciro

 

[Maheel]

do these regs fit the little argon / co'2 bottles at bunnings for mig / tig welding as well ?

if yes some bunnings have them

 

[slash22000]

Sorry for any disappointment, we've been consolidating and working hard on an expansion that will be ready for release shortly.

We have a shipment landing in about 4 or 5 days and some very flexible brewers have been patiently waiting since a glitch on our site let them order when we unexpectedly ran out of stock. We will be offering said brewers a 10% discount on their next purchase.

For anyone else who is certain they want a kit let me know and we can organise a per-order. They should be on the shelf by Friday.

Cheers

Ciro

G'day mate - just wondering what your thoughts are about this rumour "Bernzomatic cylinders are becoming hard to come by"?

Will this adapter you sell fit other brands?

 

[Truman42]

I was thinking about giving this a go using the oxy bottle from our oxy acetylene kit at work that we hardly use anyway. Going to buy a length of tube a filter and stone to connect up to the regulator.

Anyone tried this?

What KPA do i need to set the regulator at for this?

 

[vortex]

I was thinking about giving this a go using the oxy bottle from our oxy acetylene kit at work that we hardly use anyway. Going to buy a length of tube a filter and stone to connect up to the regulator.

Anyone tried this?

What KPA do i need to set the regulator at for this?

Filter isn't required.
You'd be more interested in a consistent flow-rate, rather than a KPA amount; the KPA is probably actually what pressure is inside the bottle.

 

[stux]

You just need enough pressure to get some slight bubbling. Basically ideal is to have all the bubbles from the stone not actually make it to the top of the wort.

I believe Jamil Zainasheff (Brew Strong) uses fullsize O2 bottle with medical reg.

 

[drsmurto]

A couple of points.

Air can get you to the minimum O2 requirements for an ale (8 ppm) with a lot of effort. An aquarium pump will also max out at 8ppm and will take a long time to do it. Air is, on average, only 21% O2 and so you are limited by that concentration.

Pure O2 will get you well into the recommended O2 range for ales and lagers in a minute or 2.

Less time for your wort exposed to the air. Less time for spoilage organisms to get into your wort. Less is better in my book.

After brewing AG for a number of years the single biggest change i have made is to move to pure O2. Someone mentioned awards for brewes who don't use O2 - yes, I am one of those.

However, my beers now ferment out faster, cleaner and attenuation is higher and more consistent when compared to not using O2. I am happier with my beers now.

Is pure O2 necessary? No. Does it make a positive difference? Yes.

 

[micblair]

I was thinking about giving this a go using the oxy bottle from our oxy acetylene kit at work that we hardly use anyway. Going to buy a length of tube a filter and stone to connect up to the regulator.

Anyone tried this?

What KPA do i need to set the regulator at for this?

The gauge from the kits only shows bottle pressure, not flow, so its a matter of just turning the dial until your satisfied with the amount of bubbles. I use a 2 micron stone, but apparently with a 0.5 micron the bubbles should be sufficiently small enough such that they dont even make it to the surface. I haven't been able to achieve this, so I just bubble in the range that doesn't cause too much foam for a 2 or so minutes.

 

[CONNOR BREWARE]

G'day mate - just wondering what your thoughts are about this rumour "Bernzomatic cylinders are becoming hard to come by"?

Will this adapter you sell fit other brands?

I havent found that at all, you can walk into Masters and order 10 and get a trade discount of 10%. The American supply of the O2 reg and .5 micron stone that I stock estmates you can get 10-15 batches oxygenated with one cylinder and recommends 1-2 mins per batch.

There are larger Bernzomatic cylinders available but I havent taken that further at this stage.

By adapter you mean the brass regulator right? the other brands would need to be the same size head. compare it at the green shed or Masters and you'll be able to tell.

I just checked the tracking and it's 10 days till they arrive brewers.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

A couple of points.

Air can get you to the minimum O2 requirements for an ale (8 ppm) with a lot of effort. An aquarium pump will also max out at 8ppm and will take a long time to do it. Air is, on average, only 21% O2 and so you are limited by that concentration.

Pure O2 will get you well into the recommended O2 range for ales and lagers in a minute or 2.

Less time for your wort exposed to the air. Less time for spoilage organisms to get into your wort. Less is better in my book.

After brewing AG for a number of years the single biggest change i have made is to move to pure O2. Someone mentioned awards for brewes who don't use O2 - yes, I am one of those.

However, my beers now ferment out faster, cleaner and attenuation is higher and more consistent when compared to not using O2. I am happier with my beers now.

Is pure O2 necessary? No. Does it make a positive difference? Yes.

:icon_offtopic: I will no doubt get pure O2 cranking (connor hurry up). That said, the fact that awards for non O2 saturated brews says alot. How much is the feel good factor for the brewer? I've got pure O2 pumping, the yeasties are doing so well, attenuation is up, ferment is quicker, therefore beer tastes better....
Good Dr, I know you know that correlation is not causation. I'm not trying to be a tool or start I arguement I cannot win (due to my abundant lack of knowledge/experience) just interested if there is empirical evidence pointing toward, pure O2 = better beer.
My apologies - yes I have been drinking again - I am in a remote town, that's my excuse...........
cheers
BBB

 

[WarmBeer]

I havent found that at all, you can walk into Masters and order 10 and get a trade discount of 10%. The American supply of the O2 reg and .5 micron stone that I stock estmates you can get 10-15 batches oxygenated with one cylinder and recommends 1-2 mins per batch.

There are larger Bernzomatic cylinders available but I havent taken that further at this stage.

By adapter you mean the brass regulator right? the other brands would need to be the same size head. compare it at the green shed or Masters and you'll be able to tell.

I just checked the tracking and it's 10 days till they arrive brewers.

Are you anticipating any issues with posting these cylinders over to Vic, NSW, etc? If not, keen to order one.