And that makes 3 - Toyota bails out

[sponge]

:icon_offtopic:

I know this is of little interest to anyone (except for maybe a little amusement), but every time I see the name of this thread, think about the loss of car manufacturing in Aus and along with the money-hungry-lawyer-talk in the U-blew-it thread, I always think of this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg

 

[stm]

for example solar thermal technology

And isn't that going well:

“A giant solar-power project officially opening this week in the California desert is the first of its kind, and may be among the last, in part because of growing evidence that the technology it uses is killing birds. The dead birds included a peregrine falcon, a grebe, two hawks, four nighthawks and a variety of warblers and sparrows.

“Utility-scale solar plants have come under fire for their costs–Ivanpah costs about four times as much as a conventional natural gas-fired plant but will produce far less electricity—and also for the amount of land they require."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304703804579379230641329484?

 

[Liam_snorkel]

that's a design issue which can probably be sorted out. Maybe we should calculate the deaths per MW of fossil fuel power and see how they compare.

here's another one going up: http://www.csp-world.com/news/20140109/001295/abengoa-wins-first-csp-tender-chile-will-build-110-mw-tower-plant-generate

 

[stm]

Cheap fossil fuel powered electricity has saved millions of lives.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I wonder how quickly they fry. It might even be as simple as some of those sharp pins around the tower edge to stop them landing in the path of the collector beams.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Cheap fossil fuel powered electricity has saved millions of lives.

???????

 

[Liam_snorkel]

and it also kills thousands, and is contributing to Earths greenhouse effect, which in turn will cause major upheaval, killing millions. So we need to find alternative sources of energy which don't.
That solar thermal plant killed a few birds, they can probably retrofit it with some kind of high frequency deterrant. Fossil fuels kill an estimated 9.4 birds / GWh, but we're not comparing apples with apples here.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Well now Toyota can produce a hydrogen cell car for under a $100,000 with a range of about 500 kilometres and considering how expensive they were a couple of years ago, we just need to find a cheap means to produce the hydrogen without having to extract it from fossil fuels.

 

[Goose]

Well now Toyota can produce a hydrogen cell car for under a $100,000 with a range of about 500 kilometres and considering how expensive they were a couple of years ago, we just need to find a cheap means to produce the hydrogen without having to extract it from fossil fuels.

cold fusion.

 

[booargy]

Actually, converting food sources into fuel is exactly what is happening in places like Brazil. Using bio fuels is creating a shortage of food crops.

People have taken advantage of these technologies but for a number of reasons they haven't taken off. Of course there is big oil ensuring that the technology is being drip fed, govt ensuring that they support big business, but also people like you and me that don't want to pay $3/litre for fuel when we can get oil based fuel for $1.50/litre. depsite whatever idealistic socialist agenda we may espouse on the internet.

Ethanol as an internal combustion fuel is rubbish.
vegetable oil on the other hand well, to make my own fuel out of waste oil was around $0.60 a litre so no way I was going to pay $3 a litre. commercial bio-diesel is cheaper than normal diesel but when you take in the fact you use 10% more the difference is not much. There is one company I know of just kicking off in australia to make fuel from algae.
I think you may find that there are more problems with palm oil in asia than in south america.

 

[booargy]

And isn't that going well:

“A giant solar-power project officially opening this week in the California desert is the first of its kind, and may be among the last, in part because of growing evidence that the technology it uses is killing birds. The dead birds included a peregrine falcon, a grebe, two hawks, four nighthawks and a variety of warblers and sparrows.

“Utility-scale solar plants have come under fire for their costs–Ivanpah costs about four times as much as a conventional natural gas-fired plant but will produce far less electricity—and also for the amount of land they require."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304703804579379230641329484?

there ain't no use of pointing things like that out to me because I don't give a **** how many birds get killed so long as it is cheaper to run my computer. seen how many animals die in coal mines?
The build costs are likely to be 4 times as much but what about operating costs. does it cost more to dig coal or sunlight? these articles are just drivel, how many people die of skin cancer in australia per year.

Cheap fossil fuel powered electricity has saved millions of lives.

One of the most stupid arguments against solar panels I have ever heard was from the resource council of Australia.
"It makes your roof blue" hahahha

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Maybe we should get Toyota to build the Prius localy.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

US dollars is the global currency of measurement and the usual basis for comparison.

Yep. And they are doing great. Just about every country became wealthy ( except Greece ) when the US dollar droped in value.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

it's the currency of measurement because it's the largest single economy (and historical reasons of course). Chinese economy is nipping at their heels though, will be interesting to see what happens as we are entering into the "Asian century" and the US is steadily heading towards a state of anarchy..

 

[tavas]

Ethanol as an internal combustion fuel is rubbish.
vegetable oil on the other hand well, to make my own fuel out of waste oil was around $0.60 a litre so no way I was going to pay $3 a litre. commercial bio-diesel is cheaper than normal diesel but when you take in the fact you use 10% more the difference is not much. There is one company I know of just kicking off in australia to make fuel from algae.
I think you may find that there are more problems with palm oil in asia than in south america.

Yeah don't quote me on those figures, I was just making the arguement that while people may say they support "green" fuels in public, they will still go for the low cost option.

Agree with comments about palm oil.

Edit: spelink

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

it's the currency of measurement because it's the largest single economy (and historical reasons of course). Chinese economy is nipping at their heels though, will be interesting to see what happens as we are entering into the "Asian century" and the US is steadily heading towards a state of anarchy..

Bring on a single world currency. I can see bankers and currency traders leaping out of highrise office building.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

that being said, ethanol isn't necessarily all that "green" due to land clearing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_land_use_change_impacts_of_biofuels

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

One of the most stupid arguments against solar panels I have ever heard was from the resource council of Australia.
"It makes your roof blue" hahahha

Dont worry I over heard a conversation about this recently

Quote by bottle blonde pretend glamour " Yeah...we where going to get solarpanals to cut down the power bill....but they make the roof look ugly "

 

[tavas]

that being said, ethanol isn't necessarily all that "green" due to land clearing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_land_use_change_impacts_of_biofuels

Yes, tends to fill the world with lots of Smug

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Anyone remember a few years back when the price of barley went up because the Yanks started making ethanol out of it, maybe 5 years ago if I recall.