All Apple Cider

[Stebas]

hello all

My mate and I were having a discussion, is it possible to brew an apple cider without a kit, ie straight from the apples themselves? Seeing that there are a high amount of natural sugars in the apples, and of course with the help of a little added fermentables dextrose, perhaps even raw sugar, is it possible to brew a decent cider without the aid of a kit?


any feedback would be appreciated.

cheers
stebas

 

[PostModern]

I've brewed some very dry cider with some fresh apples and litres and litres of apple juice. Pitched an ale yeast and ended up with apple-flavoured champagne. You can brew ~anything~ without a kit, except a kit.

 

[Yeasty]

Most cider is made from fermented apple juice. Natural cider has nothing added and relies on the wild yeast present in the apples for fermentation. For mass-produced ciders, a yeast culture is added in order to achieve consistency. Although much of today's cider is produced from apple concentrate, many traditional cider makers use only cider apples, cultivated specifically for the purpose.

taken from - http://www.drinkfocus.com/apple-cider/index.php

 

[MHB]

I have a keg in the fridge right now, 20 litres of apple juice, teaspoon of nutrient (the good stuff, not just DAP) and a sachet of Muntons gold yeast.

Finished up at about 8.5% alcohol and had ~ 2% residual sugar, I didnt want dead dry and as I was kegging I didnt need to worry about bottle conditioning.

It's drinking pretty well, next time I will use a mixture of different apple juices and maybe some apple and pear juice to increase the complexity, or maybe just 1/2 a kg of honey straight into the keg.

Just using juice from Woollies it cost about $1/L and is drinking very well.

MHB

 

[Tyred]

Yes. However, you have to make sure that there are no preservatives in the apple juice.

I've made cider from apple juice, champagne yeast, 1/2 cup of raw sugar and 1/4 teaspoon of yeast nutrient. It came out very dry, but I like cider like that. From my notes, it still had smell and taste of apples as well.

 

[Wortgames]

The old English farmhouse recipe was simply 'half cookers, half eaters'.

As mentioned in Yeasty's link, the apples were crushed (chopped, minced) first and the pulp then bundled in hessian cloth, stacked and then pressed.

If you can get hold of organic apples then you could go with the spontaneous fermentation, but commercial apples will probably be covered in crap so I'd wash them first (edit: and then you'd have to add your own yeast of course). Depending on how authentic you want it to be, I reckon a lambic blend would be closer to the wild bugs in an orchard than a cultivated (beer) strain would be.

 

[kook]

The old English farmhouse recipe was simply 'half cookers, half eaters'.

As mentioned in Yeasty's link, the apples were crushed (chopped, minced) first and the pulp then bundled in hessian cloth, stacked and then pressed.

If you can get hold of organic apples then you could go with the spontaneous fermentation, but commercial apples will probably be covered in crap so I'd wash them first. Depending on how authentic you want it to be, I reckon a lambic blend would be closer to the wild bugs in an orchard than a cultivated strain would be.

The best English and Welsh ciders are still made this very way. The apples are simply crushed then strained in a press. From there, the juice is racked into wooden barrels to ferment for months to years. From the wood they're bottled or racked to small plastic serving barrels.

A lot of the fermentation comes from the bugs on the skins of the apples, the rest from what has been cultivated in the barrel.

Sean may be able to elaborate more, I beleive he ran the cider stand at a few festivals.

 

[drsmurto]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and have asked on this and other forums for some ideas of replicating this

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/cider_1.htm

traditonal breton cider made using pressed apples and the wild yeast to ferment it.

As tyred said, if you use juice from a supermarket you need one without a preservative altho i have heard reports of people getting it to ferment anyway with the addition of a nutrient.

Could always do a test batch in a longneck with either a cider yeast or the leftovers form a CPA bottle.

 

[gussigan]

so drsmurt, have you got any good cider recipes? given that your ginger beer recipe i put on seems to be coming along nicely i thought i might ask about cider

 

[drsmurto]

Still on my to do list.....

My thoughts are that pure apple juice has a gravity of 1046/48. Ferment that out to close to 1000 and you get 6.7% and a dry cider. My thoughts are you if you used an ale yeast with a lower attenuation you would get a sweeter cider.

My thoughts, still to be tested. Might start the longneck test this week - just need some apples and a stubby of CPA should do the trick!

Tis the joy of HB so give it a test!!

Cheers
DrSmurto

 

[gussigan]

yeah hehe i've been following some tips for now while i get my feet but am keen to start experimenting a bit more

think i might go MHB's all juice type method except maybe using some apple and pear juice

what exactly is nutrient? i'm guessing it's for the yeast, just haven't come across needing it in my brews yet

 

[drsmurto]

I have never used the nutrient but it is there to help the yeast consume more of the sugar, the complete opposite of what i am aiming to achieve! :blink:

If you dont have a juice extractor then give the store bought juice a go, try one with the least amount of additives and report back, will be very keen to hear the results as i am sure other will be too.

 

[gussigan]

yeah, i'll probably start it in about a week and a half as i may not have a spare fermenter until then.

ciders take a fair while longer to ferment i think i read, yeah?

 

[vitalogy]

FYI

http://www.abc.net.au/tasmania/stories/s1688101.htm

 

[drsmurto]

FYI

http://www.abc.net.au/tasmania/stories/s1688101.htm

Cheers vitalogy! :beer: top link that.

I had thought of dropping the apples into boiling water for a minute to kill any wild yeast but that sounds easier. I will still give an ale yeast a go to see if i can avoid lactose to start with.

 

[vitalogy]

Cheers vitalogy! :beer: top link that.

I had thought of dropping the apples into boiling water for a minute to kill any wild yeast but that sounds easier. I will still give an ale yeast a go to see if i can avoid lactose to start with.

No problem. I've been intending to try that recipe myself for a while now, but never got past the obtaining apple juice stage

 

[MHB]

think i might go MHB's all juice type method except maybe using some apple and pear juice
what exactly is nutrient? i'm guessing it's for the yeast, just haven't come across needing it in my brews yet

The nutrient I was referring to is a mixture of autolyzed yeast, DAP (Di-Amonium-Phosphate) trace elements, zinc and vitamins. It is used in wine making and yeast propagation to ensure the yeast gets a good start in life.

Unlike a wort, juice (and mead) although rich in sugar is deficient in proteins, vitamins and minerals that the yeast needs for reproduction; this is why people refer to month's long brewing times.

The one I am using is widely available, inexpensive and you only use a smidge, the jar says 40g/10hL thats 40g /1000 Litres or 1g /25L. Wyeast nutrient would work just as well, and the ferment is over in around 7 days.

MHB

 

[drsmurto]

So i started my cider making experiments on Saturday. used royal gala apples, 4kg for $4.

Batch #1 - juiced apples and put in a longneck with gladwarp/rubber band on top. Lets see what the 'wild' yeast present in fruit does.....

Batch #2 - juiced apples and added campden tablet (2 tabs in ~3L). Let sit overnight. Added small amount of coopers kit yeast (ale) to each bottle (2 l/necks, 1 plastic) and topped with gladwrap/rubber band.

Both batches are sitting at room temp (~25degC).

2 days in and batch #2 is looking like a typical ferment, yeast cake on bottom, bubbles, gladwrap is very tight.
Batch #1 is different. there is an crust on the top which is normal (i realise that the bretons ferment at 10-12degC but this is a scientific exp[experiment) and something resembling a yeast cake on the bottom.

Science is fun people!

All this is in preparation for a house i have just put an offer in for. Its has 4 apple trees (as well as 2 apricot, a nectarine and a fig - fruit beers......) and a garage converted into a bar.......

Will update later in the week.....

Cheers
DrSmurto

 

[Jye]

Has anyone tried filtering their cider to speed up the aging process?

Listening to TBN cider show with Vincent Sterne from Two Rivers Cider Company explains that they ferment for 3ish weeks, cold crash and then filter. It is then kegged and sent out to the pubs.

Are there any Brisbane brewers out there with a good apple juice supply?

 

[Tyred]

For a supply of apple juice.

You could try Golden Circle. They have a factory outlet. It would probably only be blended apple juice.

The other option would be trying to get to Stanthorpe during the harvest season.

I've noticed that Aldi was selling apple juice (didn't appear to have preservatives) for about $1.99 per 2Litre. Cheapest I've seen locally, except for the odd sale at shops.