Ahb Wiki: The No-chiller Method / Using A Cube

[Cortez The Killer]

Any reason why a Cornelius Keg would not work?

When this was asked before I think the argument against went along the lines of that a keg was designed to contain pressure. However when hot wort cools it sucks pressure in. Therefore a good seal would not be formed to keep out the outside air out.

The cube changes shape to accommodate this (ie the walls are sucked in) - A keg won't have this ability

You can try it and report back

I find that a plastic cube is more than sufficient

Cheers

 

[matti]

I no chilled my first lager yesterday.
I don't plan to rack it for another 2 weeks.
The cube is in the fridge at the moment.

I am pretty sure I will achieve a clear wort in time with no chill but it will be interesting if the cold break will impart any off flavour in a lager.

My latest effort may need some help in many ways before it will be ready to drink.
any tips would be handy fellow.

Like how long will it take for all cold break to settle?
I am talking about the really fine stuff you cannot see.

MAtti

Ps Nice article Cortez

 

[therook]

I'm a no chiller and have a question for other no chillers that make Pilsner/Lagers.

I made my second Pilsner 3 weeks ago and find that the hop aroma/Flavour on both the Pilsners i have done as being non existent do other non chillers find this is the case using this method?

Rook

 

[PostModern]

Not sure if I'm qualified to answer, as I mostly make ales. I only add flavour/aroma hops at flameout and have no issues with plenty of aroma. IIPAs and IAPAs might get dry hopped in primary when the yeast head drops in.

 

[bindi]

I have four lagers/Pil on tap at the moment [this is very rare and poor planning] all no chill and as clear as, with no loss of hop flavor and easy drinking.

Off topic, becoming bored with lagers and can't wait to put a good ale on tap though. :icon_cheers:

 

[matti]

I have four lagers/Pil on tap at the moment [this is very rare and poor planning] all no chill and as clear as, with no loss of hop flavor and easy drinking.

Off topic, becoming bored with lagers and can't wait to put a good ale on tap though. :icon_cheers:

Glad to hear its all good, Bindi.

I checked my lager cube that is sitting in the fridge @ 1 degrees ATM.
The cold break has coagulated really well but still appears about 10cm from the bottom as a big ugly cloud.
This is only 3 days from brew day.

If you chill the wort down to slush you are supposed to get the best results.
I can't see why this should be any different when "no chilling", providing the closed airtight container is free of oxygen and completely sterile.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Matti

 

[Cortez The Killer]

If you chill the wort down to slush you are supposed to get the best results.
I can't see why this should be any different when "no chilling", providing the closed airtight container is free of oxygen and completely sterile.

Cooling the cube to low temps shouldn't be a problem as long as it wasn't cooled rapidly initially when hot packed

All of the break in my cubes ends up in the fermenter. I've never bothered trying to separate it when transferring from cube to fermenter.

This does make for a lot more gunk at the bottom of the fermenter but it hasn't affected the clarity or flavour of my beers

Cheers

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Would purging the cube with CO2 negate this? I would think that, logically, if proper sanitation is followed, and there is a surplus of CO2 to air in the headspace, it would be OK. Anyone have experience with this?

and in relation to the (supposed) issues with long term stability and clarity, would the application of pvpp (ie polyclar) address these concerns?

I can't see that purging with co2 would cause any problems. Though with the steam which comes off the hot wort it may be difficult to ensure that oxygen is not drawn in when transferring the hot wort in - due to turbulence created in the head space.

You'd be surprised at how much air can be squeezed out of a hot cube. So I can't really see the advantage of purging with co2.

I made a batch on the weekend and my cube probably had about 2 litres of head space after squeezing. It'll be sitting like that till probably tomorrow (7 days) as my smack pack is taking a little while to wake up. So I'll see if there are any problems in the final product and report back.

With long term stability I just finished of a keg that had been in the keg fridge for 5 months and there beer was drinking just fine. I find all my beers clear up very nicely in the keg after about 2 weeks. All I use is whirlfloc at 10 mins to go in the boil.

Cheers

 

[reviled]

I made a batch on the weekend and my cube probably had about 2 litres of head space after squeezing. It'll be sitting like that till probably tomorrow (7 days) as my smack pack is taking a little while to wake up. So I'll see if there are any problems in the final product and report back.

Id be very interested to find out the results :icon_cheers:

 

[PostModern]

I have a range of cubes of different sizes. Makes it easy, unless I totally stuff my target volumes on double batches. Haven't had airy headspace in a while.

 

[matti]

I've got Willow cubes. They are taller and more suitable if you are aiming to rack the clear wort off the break.
Most people would not worry about the cold break as it will settle in the fermenter any way.

But if you are aiming at having a product at the end that is a clean tasting an estetical looking, it is recommended to leave the majority of cold break behind.
This will leave you less work to do and shorten the lagering period.
Since I don't filter I am hoping to avoid fining the beer later.

 

[edoeven]

I usually no-chill-cool overnight in my kettle. I cover the top with some sanitised foil. Have not had any problems with infections however I always pitch generally ~ 24 hrs later.
this method means I can do a AG brew in about 3-3.5 hours, (with a simple mash anyway).
I transfer everything possible to the fermentor (all the break, as much trub as I can, I dont want to waste any wort!!!)
so far, no problems with clarity or chill haze or anything like that... Once I get a bigger mlt that is capable of doing double batches I'll be cubing like crazy tho hehe
The one downside is the trub in the fermentor makes it harder to easily harvest clean yeast - I get around this by harvesting yeast from the krausen during ferment (which works well with ales anyway!)

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Cheers, cortez.
My main issue is the PITA of getting the air out with the shape of cube that I have. I'm sure that the stouter, shorter ones are fine, but the taller, narrower willow type ones are a bugger. <_<

Butters - its all in the technique.

I have a willow "jerry" style NC cube, which is what I think you mean?? I learned how to squeeze it from Spillsmostofit. Its easy once you know how.

You will need two hand towels.

-Take your freshly filled cube and screw on the lid till it just seals
-carry it over to the nearest nice solid wall and put it sideways hard up against the wall.
-kneel down one one knee in front of the cube as though you were going to ask it to marry you
-Grab it by the handle (wrapped in one of the towels) and tilt it backwards so the opening is the highest point. A little less than 45
-put the knee thats not resting on the ground into the side of the cube and push lightly (towel on it to prevent burns) and with the hand thats not holding the handle, loosen the lid of the cube a tiny bit, till the air starts to come out
-lean your knee into the side of the cube, squashing it, till all the air has been pushed out - as the first bit of wort starts to run out, tighten up the lid.

You should fairly easily be able to completely squeeze out all the air. If I have more than a 50c sized bubble of air in the cube... I do it again till I dont.

Easy peasy when some other bugger has shown you how to do it.

Thirsty

 

[buttersd70]

Thanks thirsty
Yeah, thats the type of cube I was talking about. You make it sound easy....as you say, simple once you know how. Will try this on my next brewday.

 

[reviled]

Ive been thinking, whats to stop putting a tap on the cube and an airlock in the lid, and using it as a fermenter as well? Or would this not work?

 

[Cortez The Killer]

There's nothing stopping you ...

As long as you have enough head space for the krausen

And you have some means of aerating the wort - You could try the olive oil thing so aeration is not a concern

There's a few people using cubes as fermenters - not sure about people using the same no chill cube as a fermenter though

You need to remember that the cube doesn't change shape unless there's heat - so if you squeezed it to get air out initially - it will retain this shape as it cools

Cheers

 

[buttersd70]

I have used cubes to ferment (not the same cube as I no chilled in, though) with great success, but they are a bugger to clean the krausen ring out of. Chux on a (bent) stick, and a hell of a lot of shaking, rinsing, repeating.
The main reason is that the fridge that I have temp controlled can only fit 1 fermenter......or 1 fermenter and a cube. If you do it, make sure you clean the krausen ring as soon as the cube is emptied. If you leave it, you'll never get the bugger off.

 

[crozdog]

I have used cubes to ferment (not the same cube as I no chilled in, though) with great success, but they are a bugger to clean the krausen ring out of. Chux on a (bent) stick, and a hell of a lot of shaking, rinsing, repeating.
The main reason is that the fridge that I have temp controlled can only fit 1 fermenter......or 1 fermenter and a cube. If you do it, make sure you clean the krausen ring as soon as the cube is emptied. If you leave it, you'll never get the bugger off.

Butters,

i disagree, I find it's easy. forget the chux on a stick, simply fill the cube with water & sodium percarbonate. it does all of the work for you.

i do agree that you need to do this promptly as the longer it's left the harder the krausen becomes.

 

[BusinessTime]

Would an issue with using the NC cube as a fermenter be that there isn't enough oxygen in the wort for the yeast ???? Unless you decant and pour back into cube to airate it ....

 

[buttersd70]

Yes, you would need to aerate the wort, either open it to get air in and then reseal and shake it, use a stone, or decant out. However you choose to aerate is up to you, but it would need to be aerated in some fashion.