Ahb Wiki: The No-chiller Method / Using A Cube

[Kingy]

ive gone from BIAB and No chill up to a 3 vessell system and a chiller. But have now found my self back doing th BIAB and No chilling. Far less time and get to pump out a lot more brews also couldnt notice any difference in the beers.

 

[Rurik]

When this was asked before I think the argument against went along the lines of that a keg was designed to contain pressure. However when hot wort cools it sucks pressure in. Therefore a good seal would not be formed to keep out the outside air out.

I know one avid brewer who uses no chill into kegs. He just connects a gas line up to it and maintains some over pressure while it cools.

 

[PostModern]

Obviously, once you use a cube as a fermenter, it stays a fermenter, not a no-chill cube.

 

[T.D.]

Why do you say that PoMo?

A soaking in Napisan and it'd be as good as new.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

It's precautionary

I wouldn't be comfortable using a cube if it'd been used a fermenter either

For peace of mind I'd keep the two separate

Cheers

 

[PostModern]

Yep. Single duty. Eg, for no-chill I prefer undrilled cubes. Obviously for a fermenter, you'd have a drilled one with tap. Lurking between the tap or bung and the cube's thread could be one mutant yeast cell that survives the hot temps. Bye bye batch.

 

[geoffi]

I don't use cubes as 'fermeters' as such, but I do use them for lagering and cold conditioning. I've used the same cubes for no-chill, without any ill effects so far. Mind you, I give them a fearful workout with boiling water, bleach and vinegar for a day, air dry, store with sod met, then iodophor prior to reuse. Threads, bungs, lids and o-rings get particular attention. I can see how less-than-anal sanitising could lead to disaster with these.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Damn - I just kind of assumed that everyone removed all taps, bungs seals plus took o'rings off all fittings etc between brews and they all got a good separate sanitise before the fermentor was reassembled and sanitised as a unit.

If that level of sanitation isn't in your schedule, yeah maybe you shouldn't use the same cubes for fermenting and for NC.

But still - even if there is some bug action hiding in the gaps. The gaps are going to get heated up pretty damn hot over quite a long time. They'd have to be some pretty tough yeast/bacteria to live through that.

 

[geoffi]

Damn - I just kind of assumed that everyone removed all taps, bungs seals plus took o'rings off all fittings etc between brews and they all got a good separate sanitise before the fermentor was reassembled and sanitised as a unit.

If that level of sanitation isn't in your schedule, yeah maybe you shouldn't use the same cubes for fermenting and for NC.

But still - even if there is some bug action hiding in the gaps. The gaps are going to get heated up pretty damn hot over quite a long time. They'd have to be some pretty tough yeast/bacteria to live through that.

Yeah, that heat should be the stake through the heart of the wort-sucking bug vampire.

If you've thoroughly cleaned and sanitised a cube, then filled it with near-boiling wort and let it sit for hours to pasteurise, and it still gets infected, take that cube to your nearest microbiologist. You might have discovered one of them thar 'superbugs'.

 

[PostModern]

Damn - I just kind of assumed that everyone removed all taps, bungs seals plus took o'rings off all fittings etc between brews and they all got a good separate sanitise before the fermentor was reassembled and sanitised as a unit.

If that level of sanitation isn't in your schedule, yeah maybe you shouldn't use the same cubes for fermenting and for NC.

But still - even if there is some bug action hiding in the gaps. The gaps are going to get heated up pretty damn hot over quite a long time. They'd have to be some pretty tough yeast/bacteria to live through that.

Yeah true. However, as I said above, I use undrilled cubes for no-chill, so there are no threads in contact with the wort. I wash them after use with either PSR or sodium percarbonate, rinse and store open. Before use, another rinse with percarbonate then a no rinse iodophor soak. I've got a few cubes here drilled and bunged, they's me real ale cubes.

 

[white.grant]

I've got a few cubes here drilled

PoMo, what exactly do you mean by drilled? Do you ream the existing threaded bung hole?

cheers

Grant

 

[matti]

My latest effort in no chill the lid didn't seal.
Checked it a moment ago and purged the air again.
Had to have a couple of goes before it sealed properly.
Unfortunately there is no way of creating a vacuum suction as it is has gone lukewarm.
I don't think I am in trouble as every thing (lid and jerry) would have got properly sterilised with the hot wort.

Has any one had similar problem and what was your experience?

Matti

 

[reviled]

My latest effort in no chill the lid didn't seal.
Checked it a moment ago and purged the air again.
Had to have a couple of goes before it sealed properly.
Unfortunately there is no way of creating a vacuum suction as it is has gone lukewarm.
I don't think I am in trouble as every thing (lid and jerry) would have got properly sterilised with the hot wort.

Has any one had similar problem and what was your experience?

Matti

This happened to me the first time I used a cube, I assumed it was the particular cube I got was not meant to be airtight.. I just left it overnight and then dumped it into a fermenter the next day... That was my first AG and it came out sweet as B)

The cube sealed perfectly the next time I used it <_<

 

[Ross]

Is there really a need to squeeze & limit the headspace?

With the fact that there is always headspace left, if it was a problem then surely the commercial guys & others would be losing brews. With the fact that the sealed cube is at pasteurisation temps for a good length of time i really dont see the need to be too concerned if you've 10 to 20% of headspace.

Cheers Ross

 

[matti]

Is there really a need to squeeze & limit the headspace?

With the fact that there is always headspace left, if it was a problem then surely the commercial guys & others would be losing brews. With the fact that the sealed cube is at pasteurisation temps for a good length of time i really dont see the need to be too concerned if you've 10 to 20% of headspace.

Cheers Ross

You are right in your assumption to a certain degree me thinks. That's why I don't have any immediate concerns.
But if you do squeeze the air out you will create a suction that will seal the lid proper and be good for longer time storage.
Once the brew is cooled the air can do little damage, I believe.

 

[Pumpy]

Is there really a need to squeeze & limit the headspace?

With the fact that there is always headspace left, if it was a problem then surely the commercial guys & others would be losing brews. With the fact that the sealed cube is at pasteurisation temps for a good length of time i really dont see the need to be too concerned if you've 10 to 20% of headspace.

Cheers Ross

Agreed however I like to squeeze the cube to get distortion .

So if I have not sealed it properly air will get in and it push out the sides ,

You can decide when it has cooled too add yeast straight away rather than storing the wort as it may well get infected .

Also my belief is the squeezing of the cube the steam chases any unsterilised air out of the cube .

Pumpy

 

[wambesi]

Is there really a need to squeeze & limit the headspace?

With the fact that there is always headspace left, if it was a problem then surely the commercial guys & others would be losing brews. With the fact that the sealed cube is at pasteurisation temps for a good length of time i really dont see the need to be too concerned if you've 10 to 20% of headspace.

Cheers Ross

Exactly my thinking, I squeeze a little to minimise the space, but mainly so it has some suction there and can see if there is a leak.
Otherwise my four AG's (NC) to date all have had more head space then most people on here have described.

They seem ok to me, much better than my kits

 

[Weizguy]

Ive been thinking, whats to stop putting a tap on the cube and an airlock in the lid, and using it as a fermenter as well? Or would this not work?

**1/ I think that you should not consider putting a tap on the cube/jerry until the wort has cooled or you will find that air is sucked in via the tap, and you don't want that to undo all your good work.

For me, I'd prefer to use a separate fermentor.

** 2/ One more thought occurred to me: do you think that our American visitors for the ANHC will be comfortable drinking no-chill beer (botu-beer, as it has been called)?
I assume that they'll need to do some research before they're cool with drinking no-chilled beer; being American and all. :lol:

Beerz
Les

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I never thought that squeezing the air out of the cube had to do with infection control, I thought it served two main purposes, with the notion of infection control far in the background.

First - if you don't squeeze out all the air, then seal it up and shake/turn the cube to get heat on all the surfaces - it might blow up like a balloon when the air in the gap expands from the heat, popping the lid and spraying you with boiling hot sugar water

Second - to limit oxidation. I'm generally not a massive believer in hot side aeration, but hours and hours of contact between air and hot hot wort as the cube cools down overnight... seems like you are asking for HSA to pop out from behind a tree and have a fuzzy photo taken of itself. Squeeze out the air and the HSA yeti stays in its cave.

Especially if you are going to store the cube in the longer term. You want oxygen in your wort, but only for yeast to absorb, if its there for a long time, it will oxidise things, which might be bad for the beer.

It will actually be interesting to see what the American Gurus think of some of the less traditional things we are doing over here... should we warn them or let it come as a surprise?

 

[Damian44]

Could someone remind me why i cant cool my cube in the swiming pool?

And could i chill the wort than fit the tap and a Siphon Spray Wort Aerator to my cube?

TYVM