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Advice On A Mini Ag

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Jim - Perth

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Dear All

I don't often do AG's - I mainly do partials but I have a few grains & hops which I've had in stock for around 6 months which I want to use up.

I have in mind doing a 12L stout using the following & would appreciate any feedback, comments or advice. I realise the mix may not be perfect but, as I said, I want to use up some stock but, by the same token, I don't want to waste my time.

Grain
2 kg JW Traditional Malt
375g Rolled Oats
250g Choc Malt
250g Roast Barley
250g Cara Pils

Hops
25g POR - 60min
15g Fuggles - 30min
10g Goldings - 10min

Boil time 90 min

Yeast - 1056

Jim
 

bonk

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Hi Jim,

the 250g of roast barley might be a little strong in such a small brew. maybe halve it?
 

Guest Lurker

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Hi Jim

I agree with Bonk. A good rule of thumb is 10% dark grains. So in a 3 kg mash, I would be inclined to make choc plus roast no more than 300 or 350 g, split depending on your taste preference. You could go higher but risk getting a bit of a charcoal type bitterness in there.
 

pint of lager

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What IBU'sare you aiming for?

Do you know what AA rating your bitter hops are?

Making a stab at 10% AA, 12 litre batch, 60 minute boil, that works out to be roughly 60 IBUs.
 

Jim - Perth

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I was aiming at about:
- 48 IBU.
- 1057 OG
- 1014 FG
- 5.7% abv.

POR are around 7%

Jim
 

pint of lager

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That's good, so long as you have run the figures through a IBU calculator.

Although, 7% for POR seems a bit low, they usually are around 10%. There are also super POR around at 13%.
 

ozbrewer

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The only flaw i see is with the POR hops, Bittering that high with POR can and most probably will make the ber taste off. I would use enough POR to get to 20IBU then use some of the other hops to get the IBU up where you want it... Then use some POR for Flavor/Aroma aswell.
 

Jim - Perth

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I'll double check those POR when I get home - I had them down as 7%

I may even reduce these back at the 60min mark & add some back at around 30-40min.

I will also cut back my dark grain to a total of 300-350g

Jim
 

bonk

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sounds like its coming together nicely.
 

GMK

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how many litres are you boiling - this will effect your hop utilisation.

u could throw 10gms of goldings in the mash for mash hoping.
I would drop the POR down a bit as well.

U could use some Dark Brown Sugar to up the Og if u miss by a bit.

i would only do a 60min boil.

Hope this helps
 

Jim - Perth

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I was expecting to boil close to the full 12L.
Jim
 

bonk

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Hi Jim.

when you do your partials do you know how well your effiency is, how much you need to try and collect and % evaporation .

these will effect how much you will end up with. i know when i'm trying to get 12L i need to collect about 17L into the boiler so after the hour i get 12L or there abouts.

i'm sure there is an air-locked thread in the AG & partial section about this (might be better explained then by me :))

however, when you do your partials you know how much you started with, how much you are left with and that you need to top it back up to the 20L or so, and then add in your liquid/dried malt to achieve the desired outcome (or whenever you add it).

by skiping the top-up and dried malt your left with an ag beer, but at only 12L or so.

gee i hope that makes some sense, if not i'll try again or hopefully someone else will :)

cheers
 

Jim - Perth

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Bonk

On a brew such this, which I only do rarely, I follow a similar formula to my partials ie, 2-3L/kg grain for the mash & 1-2L/kg for the sparge. I will go to upper limits on this one. This will get me to close to 12L in the fermenter.

Jim
 

bonk

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Hi Jim,

sounds like its all under control :)
 

Jim - Perth

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POL

You were right about the POR - they are 9%.
Q-Brew, which I used not being a regular AGer, had them on their database as 6.7%.

GMK

Why is it that you suggest that I cut the boil back to 60min?

Jim
 

Trough Lolly

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G'day Jim,
What a coincidence! I did a 21L Partial Dry Stout (pseudo Guinness) on the weekend... :)

In addition to 2kg of malt extract, the 2.5kg grain bill was:

90% English (Bairds) Stout Malt
5% TF Roasted Barley and
5% TF Flaked Barley.
1.5 teaspoons of gypsum in the mashtun.

Northern Brewer to bitter, Fuggles for flavour and aroma.

Wyeast 1028 London Ale yeast

Going off in at 20C in primary now...How did yours go? I prefer dry stouts to sweet stouts and this grain bill is about as basic as a stout can get - all the colour comes from the roasted barley and the flaked barley helps the head and gives a nice grainy flavour to the beer which I prefer.

I've never used POR in a stout - and to echo previous thoughts, a lot of POR for bittering might be a bit of an issue flavour wise. I'd recommend Northern Brewer, Goldings and Northdown hops if you can find them.

The 1056 yeast will give a neutral clean ferment which is great for pale ales but the exact reason why I don't use it in stouts - you're much better off with 1084, 1028 or even S-04 if you have to. I also like the minerally notes that the irish/english yeast strains give the beer.

Cheers,
TL
 

Jim - Perth

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G'day TL

I haven't put mine together yet.

Part of my mission is to use up the remainder, or most thereof, of my stock as profitably as pos. before getting fresh stuff in. This is why some of my ingredients are not totally ideal.

I have taken on board comments from others & have made some changes so it's currently going to look a bit like this:

2kg JW Trad. Ale
160g Choc. Malt
160g Roasted Barley
250g Cara Pils
375g Rolled Oats

10g POR 60min.
20g Fuglies 30min.
10g Goldings 60min.
5g Goldings 10min.
5g POR 5min.
10g Goldings in the mash.

1056

12L Batch

I may reduce boil time to around 75min.

I'll let you know what happens.

Jim

PS 1056 may be replaced after my PET bottle blast off - see my previous post!
 

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