Adding Oats To Stout

[rackemup]

Hi, i am thinking of doing a coopers stout to about 20 ltr and i want to increase the mouthfeel by adding some oats. how much should i use and how long would i mash them? any advice would be much appreciated, cheers. :icon_cheers:

 

[tangent]

No enzymes in a can of Coopers so mashing oats is useless.
Do a mash wish 5 kilos of malted barley, throw the coopers tin away.

 

[Phoney]

mashing is done for 60-90mins, do a search in the Kit & Extract section for oats stout - there's been heaps of threads explaining how to do it and how much to use etc.

 

[staggalee]

Ah, the joys of h/brewing....... one simple question, 2 completely different answers.

stagga.

 

[manticle]

No enzymes in a can of Coopers so mashing oats is useless.
Do a mash wish 5 kilos of malted barley, throw the coopers tin away.

A guy/girl asks how to add extra to his kit and your advice is to do a 5kg AG batch? Did it strike you that the OP might not yet be set-up for all grain brewing? Should s/he not make beer until s/he is?

@OP - if you use unmalted grains, I'm fairly certain you'll need to mash them with some malted ones in order to convert the starches (vaguely what tangent was trying to get at). I'm not sure if you can just use specialty malts for this or whether you'll need base malts but chocolate and crystal malts both work well in a stout. If you could get access to some ale malt (even a kilo) and do a minimash with that and maybe 100-200 g each of crystal and chocolate, your stout will improve magnificently. This will be in the partial mash realm rather than kits so it may depend on how confident you are with your processes.

Someone else more experienced may be able to help more but my understanding is that the starches from unmalted grains (if not used in conjunction with malted) will lead to cloudy beer that may also encourage bacterial growth. I've read that up to 3 % flaked oats will assist mouthfeel and head retention. I've also heard of people using 10 % and more. I can't vouch for either but that might give you a ballpark range or at least somewhere to start.

 

[staggalee]

Good for you Manticle, I agree with ALL of that, good someone`s got the stamina to post it at 4.30 Sat. pm.
Should help him heaps.

stagga.

 

[buttersd70]

I'm not sure if you can just use specialty malts for this or whether you'll need base malts

It would need to be base malt, at least equal weight to the unmalted oats. at a 1:1 ratio, the base malt would provide enough enzyme to convert the oats. A fairly long mash would be required imo, 90-120 min. If more base malt was available, it would be better still.

imo, if it were to be done as a partial, I think you would need at least 1/3 of the toal fermentables to come from the mash itself to become wortwhile; 1/2 would be better still. But, 1kg ale malt + some oats, would, as manticle said, work fine. His advice re the spec malts is spot on.

 

[HoppingMad]

If I'm reading the Opening Post right - Rackem is asking about 'flaked oats'? :blink: But could be wrong. Darn confusing. Flaked certainly adds the mouthfeel you'd be seeking and are used in loads of stouts.

But Rackem you might want to make your question a little clearer than the OP if the above posts haven't answered your question. Plenty of folk out here happy to help.

Hopper.

 

[manticle]

Flaked oats still need to be mashed with malt though yeah?

 

[BoilerBoy]

Flaked oats still need to be mashed with malt though yeah?

Yes,

BB

 

[rackemup]

A guy/girl asks how to add extra to his kit and your advice is to do a 5kg AG batch? Did it strike you that the OP might not yet be set-up for all grain brewing? Should s/he not make beer until s/he is?

@OP - if you use unmalted grains, I'm fairly certain you'll need to mash them with some malted ones in order to convert the starches (vaguely what tangent was trying to get at). I'm not sure if you can just use specialty malts for this or whether you'll need base malts but chocolate and crystal malts both work well in a stout. If you could get access to some ale malt (even a kilo) and do a minimash with that and maybe 100-200 g each of crystal and chocolate, your stout will improve magnificently. This will be in the partial mash realm rather than kits so it may depend on how confident you are with your processes.

Someone else more experienced may be able to help more but my understanding is that the starches from unmalted grains (if not used in conjunction with malted) will lead to cloudy beer that may also encourage bacterial growth. I've read that up to 3 % flaked oats will assist mouthfeel and head retention. I've also heard of people using 10 % and more. I can't vouch for either but that might give you a ballpark range or at least somewhere to start.

cheers, im a novice in the brewing game but that has helped alot

 

[rackemup]

If I'm reading the Opening Post right - Rackem is asking about 'flaked oats'? :blink: But could be wrong. Darn confusing. Flaked certainly adds the mouthfeel you'd be seeking and are used in loads of stouts.

But Rackem you might want to make your question a little clearer than the OP if the above posts haven't answered your question. Plenty of folk out here happy to help.

Hopper.

So..are flaked oats like the oats porridge are made from or do i get these from my local brew shop? i suppose im just tryin to get that thick stout texture like guiness has. cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[HoppingMad]

Only done a handful of stouts myself so not sure.

Either flaked oats and flaked barley I believe will add 'mouthfeel' - creaminess, silkiness in your mouth but not flavours. Flaked Oats particularly so, Flaked barley adds protein and some body and is used more to get a creamy head on the beer.

For flavour additions you need steeped grain for that - stouts typically use crystal malt, roasted barley, black malt, chocolate malt, and some use roast wheat and european dark grains among others in their recipes.

Related post on flaked barley here:Flaked Barley. It concurs with what the guys have said - that you need a base grain to add this as well.

I know that on the all-grain posts here there are plenty of people who add the supermarket oats to their stouts - check out any 'Oatmeal Stout' and you'll find a lot of them use them. Again appears that any flaked adjunct needs to be mashed in with some grain.

Hope this helps, sorry not an uber expert on stouts (yet B) ).

Hopper.

Edit - My meagre knowledge topped up by a quick read of Palmer's 'How to brew'

 

[BoilerBoy]

[quote name='Rack'EmUp' post='483394' date='Jun 27 2009, 10:29 PM']So..are flaked oats like the oats porridge are made from or do i get these from my local brew shop? i suppose im just tryin to get that thick stout texture like guiness has. cheers :icon_cheers:[/quote]

The breakfast oats like "quick oats" & "2 min Oats" you find in supermarkets have been gelatinised and can go straight into the mash, However, oats such as "rolled oats" have not had this process done so just stick to the quick oats and you'll be fine.

Cheers,
BB

 

[chucke]

If you do add oats, be extra careful with your sanitation. Oats bring unfermentable sugars to the party- and bacteria love'em.


edit-

If you want to add mouthfeel, maltodextrin is another option.

 

[muckanic]

I seriously doubt whether Guinness bothers with the hassle of mashing oats anymore. The smoothness could very well come from the nitrogen dispense.

 

[Fourstar]

Ok im going for another angle here, rather than using grain that requires mashing to increase mothfeel, what about Carapils/foam?

This is also known as dextrine malt. This will increase the body in your beer as the dextrins are not munched on by your yeast. If you get an infection.. well brett will have a field day! but thats another story altogether.

Either way if you want to increase the body of your stout without having todo a partial mash, go this route. It will add close to no flavour in a stout. I'd shoot for around 5-10% of your total weight of malt and steep in 70deg water for 20-30 mins.

I'd also keep the carbonation low as this can detract from a full palate to dry and light.

 

[brendanos]

Carapils was going to be my advice too. As a crystal malt it does not require mashing and will have a similar effect.

There are liquid enzymes available (if you're not particularly bothered by copping abuse like "chemical brewer" from snooty AG brewers - oh wait, they're already at it!) that can be used to aid breakdown/conversion of carbs such as those in oats, but adding some base malt is a nice and natural method.

 

[rackemup]

Carapils was going to be my advice too. As a crystal malt it does not require mashing and will have a similar effect.

There are liquid enzymes available (if you're not particularly bothered by copping abuse like "chemical brewer" from snooty AG brewers - oh wait, they're already at it!) that can be used to aid breakdown/conversion of carbs such as those in oats, but adding some base malt is a nice and natural method.

I'm thinkin of getting some dark crystal malt, chocolate malt and roasted barley. hopefully this will improve it, cheers to all for the advice :beer:

 

[manticle]

Absolutely it will improve it. Roast Barley is one of the few (if not the only) unmalted grains that doesn't need to be mashed with base malts.

All those can be steeped in hot water (around 70 deg is good) for 30 - 60 mins. Make sure you boil the resulting liquid (not the grains) and make sure you crack the grains first (or buy them cracked)

Crystal will add sweetness and body, chocolate will add roastiness and roast barley will add coffee characteristics. You may need to add a bit of extra hops at certain points in your boil. Don't go overboard though as the kit has a good dose of bitterness - just enough to balance out the grain additions.

Sorry if you already knew this.