Adding Dextrose After Primary Has Commenced

[glennheinzel]

Hi all,

I'm brewing a Belgian Strong Dark Ale and have chosen to stagger the addition of fermentable material to primary fermentation. This follows on from advice mentioned on the Brewing Network (Rochefort tour 17/6/07) and it is also mentioned by the Maltose Falcons (www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/brewingbig.php). The theory is that your yeast will be stepping up in cell count and will be at its peak performance when the additional sugar is added.

So I added all fermentables except dextrose and then pitched the yeast starter. The wort has been bubbling away nicely at 16 degrees celcius for the last two days and I've just realised that I haven't worked out how I'm going to add the dextose. :unsure:

My options as I see them are-
1. Stir the dextrose in. I don't think that dextrose clumps like malt so stirring it in should be okay and stirring up the yeast should help with fermentation. Are there any negatives?
2. Dissolve the dextrose in hot water, cool it, then pitch. Is this a better way to deliver the extra fermentables?

Note: My calculations did allow room for fermentable sugars in the final batch size, however I would like to refrain from adding too much water.

Has anyone else staggered the addition of fermentables to primary? What do you think is the best way to do this?

Cheers,

Rukh.

 

[Enerjex]

i'm not sure about this method being ideal, however you've started now so it'd be good for you to do it and post the result on here. as far as adding your dextrose if you come across some dried malt extract to add instead by all means do it. but for what you've planned on i'd say boil the dextrose in water for 10 minutes to sterilize it then let it cool to the same temperature as the fermenter and pour it in very slowly. if it's a different temp to the yeast it could cause it to freak out but stirring shouldn't be necessary.

 

[glennheinzel]

Thanks, Energex. I'm brewing a big beer (~11%) so need the dextrose to help increase starting gravity and to help dry it out at the end.

I will report back on how I go with this.

 

[PostModern]

G'day Rukh,

I've never done this either, but have read that it is a good method, for the reasons you mentioned. If you're adding the sugar more than 2 days after pitching the yeast, be really careful about oxygenating the wort. Once the yeast have stopped the growth phase, they'll do nasty things with oxygen and some precursor or other (my faulty memory at work) and make some pretty nasty flavours.

I'd either be adding it at the end of the growth phase and just sploshing it in

OR

adding it very delicately during the active fermentation phase. Boiling the water for about 10 mins to drive off the oxygen would be a sound method. Pour or rack the solution into the fermenter with as little agitation/aeration as possible.

HTH,
PoMo.

 

[Guest Lurker]

My options as I see them are-
1. Stir the dextrose in. I don't think that dextrose clumps like malt so stirring it in should be okay and stirring up the yeast should help with fermentation. Are there any negatives?
2. Dissolve the dextrose in hot water, cool it, then pitch. Is this a better way to deliver the extra fermentables?


Rukh.

I think after a couple of days fermentation the wort should be super saturated with CO2. So a potential negative would be the dextrose forms nucleation points, the gas comes out of solution, and your wort decides to exit the fermenter. I would dissolve first to be safe.

 

[SJW]

I am fermenting two Belgian Strongs at the moment. I am using the Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong. One had 1.066 OG and the second 1.088 OG. In my experience I dont think you need to save the sugar for secondary fermentation for yeast cell count reasons, especially if you have pitched a decent starter. But saying that with both of these beers and most bigger styles I always boil up 200g or so of dex with either water or the beer from the primary and add to the secondary to get the secondary fermentation fired up a little or if nothing else to create another co2 layer on top for the long conditioning process.
In short, I have not found the need to hold back all the sugar till secondary, just pitch a starter for beers over 1.065 OG and under 1.065 just pitch the smak pak.
Thats what I do anyway.

Steve

 

[PostModern]

What I read a long time ago about strong beers is that adding fermenter adjuncts after pitching prevents temperature runaway. Yeast go bananas in strong wort, so starting the fermentation off at a lower gravity then feeding the yeast will allow cleaner fermentation early on and it allows the yeast to condition in the weaker wort. Once it's near completion of the initial wort, it will deal with the extra fermentables more easily and throw less esters and other by-products.

It would be interesting to do a side-by-side brew with one batch having the adjuncts added to the kettle and the other added into late primary fermentation. But there are a lot of interesting things to try

 

[pint of lager]

You could take about a litre or two of wort from the primary fermenter and boil the dextrose up in that.

Am with GL here, don't add any type of powder/sugar once the fermentation is established or it will froth everywhere.

 

[SJW]

What I read a long time ago about strong beers is that adding fermenter adjuncts after pitching prevents temperature runaway. Yeast go bananas in strong wort, so starting the fermentation off at a lower gravity then feeding the yeast will allow cleaner fermentation early on and it allows the yeast to condition in the weaker wort. Once it's near completion of the initial wort, it will deal with the extra fermentables more easily and throw less esters and other by-products.

It would be interesting to do a side-by-side brew with one batch having the adjuncts added to the kettle and the other added into late primary fermentation. But there are a lot of interesting things to try

Thats very interesting about the temp rising with a crazy ferment. I did a Kolsch a while back and pitched a cup for yeast slurry from Potters Brewery that was taken from the primary the previous day. within 3 hours of pitching at 17 Deg C I had krusen spewing out the airlock and it went on for 3 day like that. What was interesting is that the temp of the wort was only 0.5 deg C higher than the bucket of water I had the fermenter sitting in. And the same thing with the two Begian Strongs that are going at the mo.
Lots of people (even the great John Palmer) about wort temps rising uncontrollably but I have never found that to be the case.
I wonder if anyone else has notced similar?

Steve

 

[Trent]

Rukh
I do this on occasion, depending on the beer style. Boil some water to dissolve the dex, boil it fopr a few minutes, then pour 'er in the primary. Had no real problems with it, be careful not to splash too much as others have said, but you will find it no real drama's.
All the best
Trent

 

[glennheinzel]

Thanks all for the great advice. I'll remove a couple of litres of wort to soak the dextrose in before easing the solution back into the fermenter.

 

[Weizguy]

I did something similar recently with a Ruination clone which didn't get enough gravity due to poor efficiency.

I removed a liter of wort @6.9% alcohol and carefully dissolved 1 kg DME in it (cold) before adding back to the main wort. Then did a similar thing with the remaining 500g DME.

Now, about 5 days later, the beer is at 8.9% alcohol and ~82% apparent attenuation, and tasting good. Now to rack onto the dry hop for 3-5 days, and then keg.

Beerz
Seth

 

[PostModern]

I wonder if anyone else has notced similar?

I had a 1.1something Belgian Strong Golden ale ferment like nuts. Got to over 30 in primary. The brew was undrinkable. It ended up being snail trap bait in a friend's organic garden.

 

[glennheinzel]

On Thursday night I siphoned off 2 litres of wort to dissolve 2kg of dextrose in. The wort did foam up as dextrose was added, but it wasn't out of control.

A gentle stir with the mash paddle seemed to have dissolved the dextrose in the wort so I didn't bother heating it up. It wasn't until I transferred it back into the fermenter that I noticed about 750gm of dextrose undissolved on the bottom of my pot. I just tipped this into the fermenter (without splashing/aeration). Mental note to self - Don't use the mash paddle to try and detect undissolved sugars.

Next time I'll allow room in my calculations for boiling up a seperate volume of water to help dissolve sugars.

Edit: Thanks again for everyones advice.

 

[kook]

I'll think you'll find that Rochefort are adding liquid sugar when feeding.

I'd add the sugar to water in a flask or similar, boil to sanitise then chill and add.

 

[livebynight]

Hi guys!

I am new to home brewing and loving it so far! I have my second batch fermenting now which is a Mangrove Jack's Belgian Ale. I was unaware that it was a low alcohol brew until after i began fermenting. And the SG was 1035 and seemed to level out at 1010. So i found this thread and realised it was possible to boost the ABV up a little by adding 500g more malt which i dissolved in 500ml of wort and 500ml of fresh water combined.

Will it take longer to ferment the new malt out now that fermentation has already been active for 6 days? The gravity jumped to 1012 after adding it but is still at 1012 after 2 days so this makes me wonder if it is just a slower process or if perhaps the malt isn't fermenting out well?

 

[Grott]

Hi livebynight and welcome. As its at 1012 for last 2 days I'd say the yeast has pretty much gone to sleep. Now 1) do not bottle as you will create some real bombs. 2) give your fermenter a bit of a swirl to release some of the yeast that has settled to the bottom, be gentle and avoid splashing the surface thus introducing oxygen 3) monitor the gravity and you should be on the way again.

Cheers, hope this helps and let us know how you get on.

 

[livebynight]

Oh thanks! I did get a new lot of foam on the surface the day after i added the new malt. But like i said the gravity seems to be 2 points higher. I will try stirring as you say and hope that works!

 

[manticle]

If the gravity jumped because you added a fermentable, it should drop again. Not everything in malt extract is fermentable but exercise a bit of patience with it before packaging.

 

[livebynight]

How long do you think it will take to see a change in the gravity? Its constant at 12 since i did it without a sign of change so far. Would be ok to add some dextrose to get the desired outcome of bumping the ABV up to around 4-4.5%? Or will i have to ride this out for several more days to see the changes?

Oh btw another thing could be that the malt wasn't good enough quality? I used Saunders thinking malt was malt but i have since done some reading on forums and the opinions are pretty mixed about using Saunders Malt Extract.