Abit Of Cider Advice.

[mjadeb1984]

hi all last tuesday the 29th of may i put down i cider. ingrediants as followed

1 can black rock cider
1 x 2.4L berri apple juice
1 x 2.4L berri apple and pear juice
250g lactose

and a brew enhancer pack consisting of

500g dex
250g light DME
250g Malto dextrine.

and i used a Wyeast Cider smack pack 4766 i think.

at first it was goin well but yesterday i took a sg reading and it was 1.020 and today it was the same.

whats goin on?
has my fermentation got stuck?
is it finished that high?
and what ever am i do do?

any help on the matter would be great as this is my first cider (mainly cause the missus asked for it) and i dont have much experiance with them

Cheers
Mic

 

[manticle]

Fermentation tends to slow down as it gets towards the end. One reason why the 2/3 days at stable gravity and she's done 'rule' is utter bollocks.

A straight juice cider will get down to 1.000 or even lower but your lactose, DME and the maltodextrine will stop that happening so don't expect it to get that far down. There is also probably artificial sweetener in the kit which is unfermentable.

Clean and sanitise your hydrometer tube, take a sample's worth and place it in a clean sanitised stubby. Wrap some glad wrap over the top with a rubber band to hold it in place. Shake the bejesus out of it and keep it in a warmish place. Shake it whenever you think about it (put your thumb over the glad wrap obviously) and in about three days, pour back into the hydrometer tube and see if the gravity has dropped. If it has, repeat until it no longer drops. Your brew should be able to get to a similar point with some encouragement. If the sample stays where it is then the brew is probably not going to move far either.

1020 seems too high for me for that brew but kit kilo cider tin will give about 1008-1010 from memory (long time since I did one) so I might expect your recip to stop at 1015 or so. I am guessing a bit though.

 

[JDW81]

hi all last tuesday the 29th of may i put down i cider. ingrediants as followed

1 can black rock cider
1 x 2.4L berri apple juice
1 x 2.4L berri apple and pear juice
250g lactose

and a brew enhancer pack consisting of

500g dex
250g light DME
250g Malto dextrine.

and i used a Wyeast Cider smack pack 4766 i think.

at first it was goin well but yesterday i took a sg reading and it was 1.020 and today it was the same.

whats goin on?
has my fermentation got stuck?
is it finished that high?
and what ever am i do do?

any help on the matter would be great as this is my first cider (mainly cause the missus asked for it) and i dont have much experiance with them

Cheers
Mic

Patience is the key here. I've had ciders take over four weeks to ferment out. Just make sure your temperature control is good. You can give it a swirl to help rouse some of the yeast which has dropped out, but I wouldn't bother checking for another week at least. (FWIW I leave everything I brew for a minimum of two weeks before I even bother checking how it is going).

Manticle is right in saying that the extras you've added (lactose, DME etc) will give you a higher final gravity, but 1020 is a bit too high. I'd imagine it would finish somewhere in the vicinity of 1012. To say that though, don't be surprised if it drops lower. My last cider bottomed out at 1002.

Good luck with it.

JD.

 

[mjadeb1984]

cheers guys, all the info and advice you need is just a question away on this forum, gotta be one of the best around. for sure the best im a member of, thanks again.

i shall do the stubbie trick manticle for a guide of how its goin. temperature shouldnt be a problem its on the dining room table so a pretty constant temp inside. around over night probably abou 17-18ish and when the heaters on the room might get up to 23-24ish.

my main concern is bottling to soon and getting some bottle bombs but i will leave for another 5 or so days and take a reading then.

again many thanks for a quick and informative answer.

 

[manticle]

The cider won't suffer from the extra time and may/will benefit so be patient and avoid bottling if you are unsure.

 

[troopa]

I find with most of my fermenting ciders that i get a massive amount of CO2 in my solution as it ferments
If your seeing any bubbles, that will raise your SG artificially
give the hydrometer a fair few swirls in the tube leave it 20 mins then a few more swirls and check again (i like swirling)
Other test is have a taste if its sweet then its still about the 1.010-1.020
if its drying out then its closer the the 1.000.

 

[mjadeb1984]

yeah heaps of bubbles in the sample. but tastes drier than i was expecting. time will tiell i guess ill update the thread when i test agin if nyones interested.
cheers
mic

 

[mestoth]

yeah heaps of bubbles in the sample. but tastes drier than i was expecting. time will tiell i guess ill update the thread when i test agin if nyones interested.
cheers
mic

Keep the updates,
Im about to start my first one in a few days (obtaining supplies phase now).
Trying to avoid the kit thing
making a smaller batch (5Lt demijon) just to test out "process" before wasting 20 liters of juice

Once I have the "process" sorted, I have an fruit orchid asking for some attempts (some variety of cider apples and a number of pear varieties) -Though there is a "effort" factor in sorting fruit out....

 

[troopa]

Keep the updates,
Im about to start my first one in a few days (obtaining supplies phase now).
Trying to avoid the kit thing
making a smaller batch (5Lt demijon) just to test out "process" before wasting 20 liters of juice

Once I have the "process" sorted, I have an fruit orchid asking for some attempts (some variety of cider apples and a number of pear varieties) -Though there is a "effort" factor in sorting fruit out....

You can always test "things" out with Berri or Aldi juice to start with too dont forget.. either use the demi or pour a cup out of the bottle and tip yeast in

If your having issues with motivation on picking and sorting apples.. im sure Manticle and I will be more then willing to help out if your in Victoria :drinks:

 

[mestoth]

You can always test "things" out with Berri or Aldi juice to start with too dont forget.. either use the demi or pour a cup out of the bottle and tip yeast in

If your having issues with motivation on picking and sorting apples.. im sure Manticle and I will be more then willing to help out if your in Victoria :drinks:

Yeah, about to purchase a couple of Demi's just for good measure and a few airlocks etc.
Hoping to get the gear on Saturday, with the Aldi\Coles\ etc Preserve free juice model laid down by that afternoon\sunday

 

[InCider]

Throw away your hydrometer.....that's the first step. You'll break it soon enough anyway :lol:

As has been covered - it is important not to brew to a tight schedule when working with animals such as yeast. Allocate a month, be happy with a fortnight and buy more fermenters so you can stock up.

I make cider almost exclusively and brew like Yoda with the The Force. Or maybe... brew Yoda...

 

[mestoth]

Throw away your hydrometer.....that's the first step. You'll break it soon enough anyway :lol:

As has been covered - it is important not to brew to a tight schedule when working with animals such as yeast. Allocate a month, be happy with a fortnight and buy more fermenters so you can stock up.

I make cider almost exclusively and brew like Yoda with the The Force. Or maybe... brew Yoda...

Yeah, the schedule thing is hence the mutliples
My basic plan is:
Figure brew on Primary til whenever (till theres drop in SG\bubble loss\ insert advice here), then rack to secondary to sit for a fortnight or such (seems to be some debate), maybe a month then -> debate with myself about bottle priming or bulk priming ->bottle - > store for a few weeks (?2 given the 4 weeks in the secondary) -> drink?

At the same time, start the second batch as soon as my primary is fermented (and put into additional demis). Debating getting an additional primary up at the start to "get started", but if you rack to secondary the bulk of the time seems to be sitting in the secondary, rather than primary (or am I wrong here?)

However,
Reading the Primary V Secondary racking thread, is the secondary worth it?
I dont really have the space to do a cold rack of the secondary (well short of leaving it on my garage floor in Melbourne...where its fairly fridge like at the moment ) , however I have a handy wine fridge thing that goes fairly cold, that would tkae a number of bottles

Also: thoughts on bottle type:
Planning on carbing it via either bulk prime\bottle prime. debating getting some of the Grolsh style ones (Larger volume, self sealing etc). however up for debate.

 

[Armstrong]

hi all last tuesday the 29th of may i put down i cider. ingrediants as followed

1 can black rock cider
1 x 2.4L berri apple juice
1 x 2.4L berri apple and pear juice
250g lactose

and a brew enhancer pack consisting of

500g dex
250g light DME
250g Malto dextrine.

and i used a Wyeast Cider smack pack 4766 i think.

What was your start S.G?

As far as I'm concerned, you have added a ton of fermentables, and that yeast is tolerant up to around 12% alcohol. If you are getting up there in alcohol strength it is going to labour towards the end ... if not stall.

 

[mjadeb1984]

pretty sure starting gravity was 1.052 but ill have to double check that when i get home.

 

[Armstrong]

pretty sure starting gravity was 1.052 but ill have to double check that when i get home.

That seems a bit low considering what you put into it

 

[InCider]

Yeah, the schedule thing is hence the mutliples
My basic plan is:
Figure brew on Primary til whenever (till theres drop in SG\bubble loss\ insert advice here), then rack to secondary to sit for a fortnight or such (seems to be some debate), maybe a month then -> debate with myself about bottle priming or bulk priming ->bottle - > store for a few weeks (?2 given the 4 weeks in the secondary) -> drink?

At the same time, start the second batch as soon as my primary is fermented (and put into additional demis). Debating getting an additional primary up at the start to "get started", but if you rack to secondary the bulk of the time seems to be sitting in the secondary, rather than primary (or am I wrong here?)

However,
Reading the Primary V Secondary racking thread, is the secondary worth it?
I dont really have the space to do a cold rack of the secondary (well short of leaving it on my garage floor in Melbourne...where its fairly fridge like at the moment ) , however I have a handy wine fridge thing that goes fairly cold, that would tkae a number of bottles

Also: thoughts on bottle type:
Planning on carbing it via either bulk prime\bottle prime. debating getting some of the Grolsh style ones (Larger volume, self sealing etc). however up for debate.

Hi Mestoth.. forget primary - cider will settle out in it's own time, so just use jerry cans beginning to end, and increase you number of them to allow for concurrent batches. I keg my ciders, but if I had to go back to bottling, I'd seriosly consider BribieG's PET 2l bottles from aldi...they're cheap, take a couple of litres and easy to store. But kegs are the easiest by far, and cheap.

S.

 

[Greg.L]

Hi Mestoth.. forget primary - cider will settle out in it's own time, so just use jerry cans beginning to end, and increase you number of them to allow for concurrent batches. I keg my ciders, but if I had to go back to bottling, I'd seriosly consider BribieG's PET 2l bottles from aldi...they're cheap, take a couple of litres and easy to store. But kegs are the easiest by far, and cheap.

S.

PET bottles are fine for cider to drink quickly, but you can't age cider in them, they oxidise pretty fast. I used to use PET but gave up pretty quick.

 

[mjadeb1984]

That seems a bit low considering what you put into it

yeah it was deffinatly 1.052 doubled checked it to i was expecting quite a bit higher too.

 

[jbowers]

Did you add any water?

 

[mjadeb1984]

yeah made up to 23L.

anyone know any brew calcs that have things like cider concentrate and juice?