A Couple Of Beer Thoughts

[Mercs Own]

or half a thought after a couple of beers! (a la PP )

I am sipping away on an Aventis made by "G Schneider and Sohn" and it is billed on the bottle as a bottle fermented wheat dopplebock or as Germany's original wheat doppelbock, ale.

Is anyone else confused by that??? It is brewed according to the Reinheitsgebolt which is good and it is a very nice drop indeed - quite Forbidden Fruitish in a more subtle less candy sugar kind of way but how can the Germans of all the beer people call it a Wheat-Doppelbock ale???

I did a back to Back tasting of the imported Becks with a local brewed one.... The results are probably what one would expect and disappointing. I did the same with the imported Stella and the award winning Australian international version with the same disappointing results. What worries me most about this is the announcemant by Coca Cola saying they intend to brew international brands locally at the brewery they are buuilding or at the brewery they have purchased (Bluetongue) I am sure that the big two also plan to do more of this which I think eventually will lead to lots of international brands being sold as international brands but brewed here and being pale (and bland) imitations. It is aready happening and will continue to and it will grow. God help the new beer drinker who thinks the ('local' but dont tell them that) Becks/Stella beer is the best thing since sliced white bread and even tastes almost as good as VB/Tooheys New.....

Lastly here is a game for you - can you tell me what beer I bought today from my local and some what progressive foodworks liquor store?? Heres a hint it cost me $49.99....

Over to you

ps just to clarify - in both back to back tastings the imported version was better - they actually had hop and malt flavour!

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

Lastly here is a game for you - can you tell me what beer I bought today from my local and some what progressive foodworks liquor store?? Heres a hint it cost me $49.99....

I'm just playing the game - was it a Deus?

Keith

 

[samhighley]

I sampled both the local and fully imported Stella Artois and I was hard-pressed to tell the difference.

Sam

 

[alexbrand]

I am sipping away on an Aventis made by "G Schneider and Sohn" and it is billed on the bottle as a bottle fermented wheat dopplebock or as Germany's original wheat doppelbock, ale.

Is anyone else confused by that??? It is brewed according to the Reinheitsgebolt which is good and it is a very nice drop indeed - quite Forbidden Fruitish in a more subtle less candy sugar kind of way but how can the Germans of all the beer people call it a Wheat-Doppelbock ale???

Do you mean "Aventinus"? When I read your post I was confused, too. But then I checked out their homepage. The result is, we don't call it "Doppelbock Ale"; that's what you do there in Oz The brewery describes this wheat doppelbock als "Weizenstarkbier", meaning strong wheat beer. I think "ale" was just added during translation to fit it into your beer language because the proper counterpart "obergrig" (meaning "top fermented") is not really used here...

But yes, it is brewed according to the bavarian Reinheitsgebot.

Alex

EDIT: spelling

 

[Mercs Own]

I'm just playing the game - was it a Deus?

Keith

Anyone working and being paid to work in a brewery are not allowed to take part in the quiz!

Damn you beer guy!

 

[the_fuzz]

The whole international to local brewed tasting different to people has me stumped

Considering, if the internation brewer detects any difference to the receipe, the local brewer loses their rights??

According to some tech's at Lion Nathan, the International brewer constantly sends people over to sample the beer and also they have to send it over the the brewers to taste test.

One thing they did say, was what they find is people actually enjoy the taste of imported beer basically just because of the fact they paided through the nose for it, they assume it will taste nice and the fact it is "imported"

According to them, imported beer is almost always spoilt due to the conditions it goes through to get here - buy hey, maybe people like their beer spoilt h34r:

 

[joecast]

God help the new beer drinker who thinks the ('local' but dont tell them that) Becks/Stella beer is the best thing since sliced white bread and even tastes almost as good as VB/Tooheys New.....

ps just to clarify - in both back to back tastings the imported version was better - they actually had hop and malt flavour!

well, there could be a positive side to it.

first the negative: the poor saps are just hoping it will make them look more sophisticated. "hey, im drinking premium 'imported' beer."

the positive: they might actually be looking for something with more hop and malt flavor. ok, its probably not where most of us would turn for a more flavorful beer but give the poor general consumer a break. how many small craft brewers have the ability to advertise how good their beer really is?
if some people turn to stella or becks or whatever because they are genuinely interested in finding good beer, i dont have a problem with that. i just hope they move on quickly to something of more quality (and local, but not locally brewed fake imports) and not get stuck in thinking stella or becks is better than anything from australia. <gets off patriotic high horse>

as for the aventinus-ale thing, if its not a translation thing as alex said (which is probably right) maybe its a legal labelling thing. pretty sure in some states in the US, and fermented beverage above a certain %abv has to labelled "ale".
im probably wrong, but just another thought.
joe

 

[Thommo]

Barons Pale Ale? I think they're going for about that at the moment.

 

[sah]

Globalisation has been interesting for the brewing industry.

Many big companies have globalised their brand, as distinct from their product.

Many small companies have globalised their product. For example Barons and many Belgium breweries.

I have no doubt that the big players make every attempt for their licensees to brew a product as close as possible to the orginal. However, profit has to come first.

Locally brewed replica beers use local malt, local water (purified) and often local hops.

The character of internationally famous beers is a result of the combination of ingredients available at the original brewery. Most importantly the malt, water and hops. In other words, the beer has become famous because of a good recipe that was developed to suit the available ingredients.

Given the economic considerations, it should not be surprising that the big businesses that promote their brand internationally struggle to produce identical beer from breweries spotted about the globe.

I am surprised by the reports from people that have found little difference between the imported and the locally produced beer. This is encouraging.

I avoid buying "brewed under license" beer because of disappointing past experiences. Guiness and Stella Artois have been two that I've found to be consistently different between the local and the imported.

regards,
Scott

 

[sah]

I meant to add that local product does benefit from a shorter transit. This means a fresher beer and less environmental impact.

Scott

 

[winkle]

Aventinus is described as a Wheat-Doppelbock ale on the label (probably only on exports) and that is a pretty good description if not totally accurate (and could do with Dunkle added to it as well). There is also the Aventinus Weizen Eis-Bock which has the offending watery bits in Aventinus frozen and chucked out to give an ABV of ~12%. Does it have the same name in Germany?
Should really be called a Dark Wheat Extra Strong Barley Wine but I think Weizen Eis-bock is a fair warning to the consumer as what to expect and the process used to produce it.
Both damm fine top flight beers and classics.
So what do you reckon - BUL by Coke at Bluetongue :lol: ?

 

[Tony]

Ahhhhh i hear you and totaly agree.

I remember drinking "imported" becks when i started brewing and being amazed at its wonderful but simple malt and hop flavour and aroma. My dad used to work for tooheys and i also remember the dark day he told me that they were going to make it here instead of import it. I told him they would kill it and we would never drink another nice becks or heiny in the contry. I was told it was beilg brewed under strict supervision from the german brewers.

Buuuuuuuulshiiiiiiiiit !!!

as i siuspected...... the becks i loved suddenly went bland, no hops, no malt, just overprices megaswill.

I dont buy it anymore. They lost my buisness.

I cant see the german breweries carring......... no rules in australia controling ingredients and they get commission i expect. Also they still getthe good stuff to drink over there. <_<

The answer..... brew it yourself i guess.

Does anyone have a book on home brewing i can read?

cheers

 

[PostModern]

I think "Weizenbock" should be enough to describe Aventinus.

I see where you're coming from with the globalisation thing, Merc. I strongly support the return to the small economy in many things, not just beer. Local great beers made by dedicated brewers in small batches for a local customer base is my dream. It would just be nice if there was a decent living in it. The problem we have is that people are seduced by advertising and the global economy. Everything is big and international, fashion brands, cars, music, beer... Until the public is changes its attitude, nothing will change and people will happily skoll stale imports or locally made replicas and be pleased with their choices.

 

[Mercs Own]

Bock - a lager beer over 6%
Dopplebock a lager beer over 7%

So to call a Wheat Ale a Bock is.... reminds me when Tooheys bought out Blue Bock a light beer??!??!?

Anyway.... my beef

Perhaps the Becks and Stella we get here that are actually brewed OS are stale versions and so what I am tasting is different to what the majors clone here. Still I would say from my personal experience the international beers have more hop and malt character than the aussie brewed version. This too is something I noted when CUB bought out Cascade - I liked their beer but after CUB bought tham out the beer changed - became bland and and indistinct. What do you think is going to happen to Boags now that LN have bought them out??? More St George clones?

Joecast my point is exactly that - if people think they are drinking imported with all the attributes they have but it is brewed here with all the attributes we know and expect from an aussie brewed clone then we are not educating anyone to the diversity of beer - only enforcing the mainstream idea of what beer is according to the big two.

Keith yes it was Deus - thanks for (spoiling) the game so quickly <_< I will share it with you if you can get to my house in 5 minutes!

 

[the_fuzz]

I cant see the german breweries carring......... no rules in australia controling ingredients and they get commission i expect. Also they still getthe good stuff to drink over there. <_<

I might be slightly biased due to my old man being one of the big guys at lion nathan - however, I do know that when they do brew under license, that generally means a bloke from the brewery being out here full time to supervise and report back what we are doing. So really inessence, you can blame the original

 

[winkle]

So to call a Wheat Ale a Bock is.... reminds me when Tooheys bought out Blue Bock a light beer??!??!?

Dark days indeed <_<

Was the worst beer in the world for a while @ ratebeer, made you proud to be an Aussie

 

[Screwtop]

A sad day indeed +1

I believe it's a very skillful Parry directed at opposing upcoming Australian Micro/Boutique breweries who are gaining market share by finally offering Aussie beer drinkers product with Colour, Flavour and Aroma.

There is no way they would be doing it if this was not the case. Big business knows well that increased branding increases sales, so a brewery offering 10 brands of beer on the shelf should have greater market share than one offering say 5 slots on the marketing shelf. They simply have not needed to do it previously. Once importers began taking up shelf space they would have been faced with only two options. Let them take away market share or pay a fee to brew under license and keep market share. Obviously the next stage would then be to then fill the shelf slots with locally produced "international" product at a price way below what Aussie Micros need to retail at to survive, in an attempt to force them to the wall.

 

[winkle]

That is just sooo cynical Mike
It would be different if the BUL(shite) products were the same as the product in question, but despite Bill Taylors (LN) claims I offer as proof the Fosters Guinness & Stella (close to profile - PR claim) as what really happens. Does Chuck Hahn really go to Lidcombe and check the Squires products made there - if he does , he aint tried the amber recently but its BUL.
Shit - If LN could make Macs Sassy red here and cost it as a local I wouldn't be so bitter & twisted

 

[Screwtop]

That is just sooo cynical Mike
It would be different if the BUL(shite) products were the same as the product in question, but despite Bill Taylors (LN) claims I offer as proof the Fosters Guinness & Stella (close to profile - PR claim) as what really happens. Does Chuck Hahn really go to Lidcombe and check the Squires products made there - if he does , he aint tried the amber recently but its BUL.
Shit - If LN could make Macs Sassy red here and cost it as a local I wouldn't be so bitter & twisted

Sorry Perry, my cynicism shows when discussing the big trois. :lol:

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Obviously the next stage would then be to then fill the shelf slots with locally produced "international" product at a price way below what Aussie Micros need to retail at to survive, in an attempt to force them to the wall

That stage is well into fruitition. Woolworths have taken that approach - their "non swill" line up rarely contains anything other than international clones or the main marks premium offerings. There are the occasional gems to be found, but as a rule, not many. The small bottlo survives on swill, spirit mixers and cheap wine. Unless pressed, there is no reason to stock craft brew or international brew as there is insufficient turnover to warrant the outlay. The cost of advertising makes craftbrewers mostly unable to promote themselves outside their immediate locality. The cellar door works just as good / bad for beer as wine.

PoMo's dream of all brew being local based worked well in Europe for centuries and may work well now in some places due to population size. But I doubt I'll see Rooty Hill RSL establishing a micobrewery in its cellar unless they can make a Tooheys clone. It won't happen in Tuross Head.