3rd Party Request for Hop Rhizomes in Bulk (?)

[hoppy2B]

Yes the link works, eureka.

 

[hoppy2B]

See previous page.

 

[hoppy2B]

https://www.scienceopen.com/document/vid/5f4a5e85-f4a8-4ffe-b71a-ed87d24cb213;jsessionid=NzJej0HeYUEO9bn-1

I'm not sure if the above link will work - hopefully it does. I'll check it as soon as I post and if it doesn't work I'll delete.

I have it bookmarked and I normally click on the images and it goes to the main article. The article has a bit of a description on how to put hops under a microscope to test for polyploidy. It should be of interest to you if you are serious about breeding hops Yob.

Most of the traits described for tetraploid hops are applicable to the hops I call Dwarf Cluster. The Dwarf Cluster has thin bines, short internode length, notable aroma characteristics, fat cones etc. In the article there is a different leaf type from the one I described earlier in this thread but I don't expect results to be exactly the same for each sample one puts through the process of ploidy manipulation.

As stated earlier, the only way to be sure a hop plant is tetraploid is to subject it to the appropriate testing. I'll do that when I get enough time. I need to take my microscope apart and clean it and get some slides. Not sure when that will be. :blush:

 

[Stu Brew]

https://www.scienceopen.com/document/vid/5f4a5e85-f4a8-4ffe-b71a-ed87d24cb213;jsessionid=NzJej0HeYUEO9bn-1

I'm not sure if the above link will work - hopefully it does. I'll check it as soon as I post and if it doesn't work I'll delete.

I have it bookmarked and I normally click on the images and it goes to the main article. The article has a bit of a description on how to put hops under a microscope to test for polyploidy. It should be of interest to you if you are serious about breeding hops Yob.

Most of the traits described for tetraploid hops are applicable to the hops I call Dwarf Cluster. The Dwarf Cluster has thin bines, short internode length, notable aroma characteristics, fat cones etc. In the article there is a different leaf type from the one I described earlier in this thread but I don't expect results to be exactly the same for each sample one puts through the process of ploidy manipulation.

As stated earlier, the only way to be sure a hop plant is tetraploid is to subject it to the appropriate testing. I'll do that when I get enough time. I need to take my microscope apart and clean it and get some slides. Not sure when that will be. :blush:

Yep that works....Book marked. Im just enjoying my Citra and Victoria Secret hopped Pale....Ill have a read when the baby has gone to sleep. My father knows the wife of the head brewer for West End back years ago. She did her PHd in the hops industry in SA when it exsisted. Im keen to reinvogor this old industry we need it. Beggars cant be choosers and I have to start somewhere....so some locally grown stock was key to my first year! Thanks to Hoppyb2 Im not sitting pretty...all nice and moist and in the fridge. Went up to scout the property a bit more today met the old owners so I now know what the pumps are doing and the spring is fed right passed the area I was planning on growing....on top of the hill will have to thin the canopy out a little but there are plenty of poles 'ready to go' with a couple of hrs on the saw!!

This is half....slippery and raining so didnt want to walk further south...but that perfect poles half there already...

 

[Camo6]

Australian Day Hospital Association Ltd?

The bloke who sold it to me HoppyB2 hasnt put it under a microscope but I will.....give me a couple of months though. Only got the rhizomes today...plus I was looking for a 'dwarf variety'...which is near on impossible to find in Australia since its a big US thing....I dunno I cant find much into on hops in SA before 1938...but I have a good book about the industry before bittering hops took over everything. Im a horticulturalist so everything is going to be documented from growth habits to flavours and aromas....and I was planning on getting some samples sent to Tassy to get them ID'd by the uni down there and put on the list...or at least they'll be able to tell me exactly what parents they come from! If I was a major noob do you think Id even be trying this kind of thing??? I grow plants for a living now....jsut dont have any space....

Since you're not a noob I imagine you're aware of the quarantine rules in Tasmania and would use the appropriate channels before sending samples?

Also, welcome to the forum. 6kg of rhizomes! That'll keep you busy.


As far as the extra lobes on leaves, I've found some my hops throw five lobers here and there, mainly in their early season growth I think. They still grow tall though. Maybe I have dwarf hops suffering some sort of identity crisis with a mild case of elephantiasis?

 

[Stu Brew]

Yes was wondering about the quarantine but obviously Ill be contacting the Uni before I just send them samples in a wet zip lock back with plant matter in it :huh:

Some of it will be more test crops this season. The bulk quantity I have is of the dwarf cluster...so with any skill there will be a bit floating around for you guys to have a go at in a few months time! Thats only the piece I was planning on using for hops this season...there is a north west facing hill that wont get heaps of day light hours but also has a good canopy to work from. Im no expert but I have the skills to grow plants....Ive grown a bit of hops before. Plus Ive got all you guys to help!! Thanks for the welcome Camo6

I started up this too. Already looks promising...the stuff is in demand what can I say...I just hope I can grow it alright! B)

Not sure if link will work....this will keep you updated on my project Hops farming anyways. Hopefully it can get some like minds together and get something non Vic and Tassy going on!!

https://www.facebook.com/freshhopsaustralia

 

[hoppy2B]

As far as the extra lobes on leaves, I've found some my hops throw five lobers here and there, mainly in their early season growth I think. They still grow tall though. Maybe I have dwarf hops suffering some sort of identity crisis with a mild case of elephantiasis?

A lot of varieties throw 5 plus lobed leaves. With the Dwarf Cluster it is major trait.

 

[Stu Brew]

A lot of varieties throw 5 plus lobed leaves. With the Dwarf Cluster it is major trait.

As far as Im aware leaf shape doesnt mean a whole lot in the plant world they'll change with different levels of nutrients in the soil, young leaves look different to old leaves. Venation is important for id to a point for some plants. Which I cant really pick up in those photos. The fingers and difference there of is just differnt growth habits from differnt breeds....that said that style of leaf on the dwarf cluster looks like its been bred to pick up more light and if its a dwarf. That looks to me like it was done by someone who knows what they're doing in terms of breeding good stocks together to make something special. I mean how many different types of hops are out there? Id say there would be thousands of leaf combinations....all from the same basic leaf. This stuff is so hard to find info on....but dont go beating each other up about leaf shape....its kinda a null point on the same species of plant especially....take eucalyptus for example.....1000s of different leaf shapes so many are similar and the way you tell the difference in that situation....is the flowers....colour and the size and shape of the little or big caps h34r:

 

[Yob]

A lot of varieties throw 5 plus lobed leaves. With the Dwarf Cluster it is major trait.

Proportedly and assumed with little evidence supporting the theory thus far...

 

[Stu Brew]

Proportedly and assumed with little evidence supporting the theory thus far...

Besides from the fact he has grown enough of them to supply me with 4kgs of Rhizomes of it today??? Science and horticulture almost dont mix....the botanists are a little slow to catch up sometimes....Its not the only variety hes grown....so I mean research yes....but old school hort research.....there are plenty of people out there that understand plants and like making beer....that DONT hang around on forums....Id like to remind you of this factor....I joined to get rhizomes of Hoppyb2 and he's helped me out a lot more than any of you nay sayers have so far. Why even argue....Im going to be growing the stuff...horticulture is a lot about patience.....an looks like im the research subject....I mean the hops rhizomes are.....Why are you having a hard time digesting the dwarf thing mate? I mean he's seen and grown the stuff....and you havnt.....are you against Australian grown hops? Or just prefer to get old stock from the US? Not realising our seasons are opposite to each other and Australia should be producing the best hops in the world...and allowing brewers in the US to have fresh hops in their non hops growing season?
....We're only miles behind NZ because of the commercial push thats been going on for the last 60 years....which is now changing....Why doubt....is there room there to get excited? I mean Im pretty excited just to show people how hard I fail or succeed.....so really its on my back anyways!! Im happy to do the hard yards....Hoppy doesnt seem like he'd yank someones chain for a joke....We did meet today and had a good chat about this stuff....It was a good price and it was SA stock. Thats exactly what I needed...wether its worth growing Ill know in a few months time. Ive still got a bit more coming in from another guy down that way. Old brewing lecutrer....so we will see what happens with it all wont we. Once its sent ot Tassy Ill be sure to update you on exactly what it is otherwise Im not judging it until I see proof its good or not. Welcome ot horticulture Hop To It.....

 

[Yob]

Just because he grows them does not mean he had bred dwarf hops.. Has he cross pollinated?

This has been going for years mate, I'd be happy to see some real evidence on the subject..

Personally I grow mutated trippin Hops

 

[BottloBill]

I will say this much.....Ellerslie hops Australia has been in the game since 1932 my friend and you are further behind than you think....just saying

 

[Stu Brew]

Im really interested to hear about any soil PH, nutrient programs that have worked or failed for people at home or on their little patch. Thats what I really need to learn about atm and that info is near on impossible to find for South Australia....so if anyone has anythign to add then Id be happy to listen to that. I know a fair bit about the hills soil since Ive been running a hort business in the same area for the last 6+ years. I just dont know the ins and outs of exactly what hops needs....but since there is none Ill start out low nutrients and go from there....Real thing is ALL this research needs to be done from square one again. Since its all either been paid for by large companies or contracted by state governments a lot of its not really relevant to me or other small growers looking at doing what Im planning on. So any real world stuff on hops on what has and hasnt worked for growing hops in SA would be great!!

 

[Stu Brew]

I will say this much.....Ellerslie hops Australia has been in the game since 1932 my friend and you are further behind than you think....just saying

I'll let you in on a little secret.....Ellerslie hops grow less than 0.5% of the worlds crops....I could potentially be doing about 0.0024%....so in the numbers game I wont be that far off mate h34r:

Commercial breweries have screwed the hops industry to the point its at now....so Im not planning on ever dealing with them either....profits over people....not my style!!

 

[Rocker1986]

*Pulls up a chair and gets out the popcorn*...

 

[BottloBill]

That's all well and good☺ point being where are you trying to head with it? If they have already been there (Cluster) then aren't you better off talking to them?? Besides 4kg you could potentially grow that in 2 years off 2 rhizomes yeah. I wish you luck I will follow you closely as I do with most others with endeavours from this forum.

 

[BottloBill]

*Pulls up a chair and gets out the popcorn*...

here have some maltesers to go with your popcorn

 

[mofox1]

*Pulls up a chair and gets out the popcorn*...

Haha.. was going to do the exact same post last night, but I'd had a couple few pints jugs by then and figured I should probably let it slide.

 

[Rocker1986]

:lol: Other than that I'm not saying anything. I've had tangles with old mate in the past and it's like banging your head up against a brick wall. Pointless waste of time.

 

[hoppy2B]

Dwarf Cluster has a different aroma to the ordinary Australian Cluster. They're both early varieties and both have compact cones. They look like different varieties, but some of the similarities between the two suggest that they may be the same variety, one of which is a tetraploid.

I think the problem with Yob is that he has decided that the Dwarf Cluster is retarded by disease or something - a decision he has made based on no ability to prove his decision, and then gone on to state it as an absolute fact. I've seen no evidence that it is diseased and noted a number of characteristics that indicate it may be a tetraploid. Besides, if it were simply stunted due to disease I doubt I'd be seeing the level of morphological difference between the Dwarf and Australian Cluster varieties.

For the record, 2 x 4 year old crowns of Dwarf Cluster produced just over 5 kg of rhizome. As I told Stu, you can bury bine at the start of the season and it will turn into rhizome. If you want millions of plants, tissue culture is a well established method of propagation in the commercial hop industry.