3rd Biab Attempt

[Florian]

One thing I'm curious about is when you release the cap to let some air in then shake to aerate before pitching the yeast. Doesn't letting air in also let in some unwanted bacteria?

Yes, you are right, as others have said in the other thread you are potentially letting bacteria and wild yeasts in. The difference is though, that when you do it to aerate your wort you will pitch your yeast straight afterward. If you pitch an active and healthy yeast starter the yeast should soon outnumber any wild yeast and bacteria that got into your wort.

On the other hand, when leaving a big head space when filling the cube, there are usually around 24 hours or so until pitching time, sometimes much more than that. Any nasties that survive the heat in the headspace will have plenty of time to replicate and get ahead of the yeast. So by the time you pitch your yeast there might have already been damage done. If the wild stuff hasn't started fermenting your wort already (a swollen cube is a good indicator) then it might have at least build up it's numbers and will start to attack once your wort is aerated and before the yeast starts the work.

This of course is only a possibility and will not happen every time, but it's better to eliminate the chance as much as you can. So keep pressing that cube, mate.

 

[Truman42]

Thanks for all the informative replies and advice.

My biggest problem is I mashed with 17 litres but I had my urn on top of my bar fridge and nothing to hook the bag onto. The 4.8 kgs of grain was bloody heavy when it was soaked and i struggled to hold it up long enough to let it drain fully. Ended up dropping it into a bucket of 4 litres hot water and stirred it occasionally for 15 mins. So mash out volume was only around 8-9 litres. (Note:- to buy colander big enough to sit on top of my urn)

I added about 5 litres on my first sparge and then another 4 litres on my second sparge but added it slowly over 15 mins to not stall the boil.

With about 30 mins to go I had around 16 litres from memory.

Wasn't exactly sure about the hop additions as the maxibiab calc had figures in the maxi tab and the actuals tab and they varied greatly.


Maxi Biab tab said this..

Hop Bill

The hop bill needs to be scaled to take account of increased boil gravity and post-boil dilution

Diluted End of Boil Volume 20.40 L How many L we would have if we post-boil diluted to correct for End Of Boil Gravity

Mins Weight IBUs
60 56.7 g 50
10 33.1 g 5
19.3 g 0.000354427
19.3 g 0.00

128.5 g 55.00

Actuals tab said this..

Updated Hop Bill
The Hop Bill depends on the target IBUs, average gravity of the boil and the final diluted volume


Updated Average Boil Gravity (SG) 1.068 average gravity of the boil, based on Start of Boil readings and Target End of Boil estimates
Updated Diluted Volume 15.31 the total diluted volume after the boil at 20C, if we diluted to recipe gravity in the pot

Mins Weight IBUs
60 38.98 g 50
10 22.75 g 5
13.29 g 0
13.29 g 0.00

88.31 g 32.94


I went with 46 grams for 60 mins and 22 grams for 10 mins. Still learning so may have stuffed up a bit on this.

Thanks once again very appreciated when you can come on here and get some good solid advice without being told to do a search and read 320 posts to find what your looking for.

 

[stux]

Could the sparging have reduced my EOBG as I added it during the boil to allow for evaporation? It was hard to get a good sparge with the 4.7 kgs of grain I had and as Nick commented in another post that I wouldn't get very good efficiency with this much grain. So all I can think is that my sparge water added more water than sugars and thinned out my wort which lowered my EOBG.

Does that make sense? I checked my Sg in the cube after adding 1.5 litres of boiling water just to make sure that the figure maxibiab calc told me to add of 3.3 litres was on track, and it had dropped to 1.063. (Adjusted to 20C)

You topped up during the boil, so if your volumes were the same at start or end, then your SGs should be the same or higher

The sparge water did not dilute any more than water will. And in fact almost certainly added extra sugars, thus causing more beer to be made

Keep a copy of your filled in maxibiab calculator it will make a good record

 

[Nick JD]

You need to add all your spage runnings at the start of the boil.

And by golly, you are making something exceedingly simple, complicated!

I look forward to a new thread each time you make another batch that runs into two pages of confusing answers to great help.

If you'll excuse my bluntness, your somewhat deliberate obtuseness might be discouraging the "Move to AG" people out there who are considering it because of its simplicity, but reading this they are rethinking their abilities. Please take this into account.

For example, if your pre boil SG is bigger than your post boil SG ... you need to explain why ... not wait for people to ask WTF you are doing.

This place is a goldmine for help, but not if you constantly cry wolf.

You know what you are doing. This is clear - make a bunch more beers and RELAX. There's no need to post every little aspect of your brewday dotted with negatives. You made beer. Add yeast.

BTW, this isn't your 3rd BIAB "Attempt". Stop sabotaging yourself! Pat yourself on the back - you're making beer, not attempting it.

What a minute ... are we on the Truman Show?

 

[Truman42]

You need to add all your spage runnings at the start of the boil.

I couldn't because my boil started before I had sparged for 15 minutes. As it was I stopped the boil and cut short my first 15 min sparge to add it and crank up the burner to start the boil.

Furthermore the maxibiab instructions states that you can add your second runnings to allow for evaporation during the boil as long as you add the last bit with more than 15 mins to go. This is exactly what I did. I wouldnt have fitted all of my sparge runnings in before the boil and if I did would have lost a lot more to evaporation.

Im following the instructions in the maxibiab guide and as far as I know followed it properly.

For example, if your pre boil SG is bigger than your post boil SG ... you need to explain why ... not wait for people to ask WTF you are doing.

If I knew why I wouldn't be asking. Im assuming its because I didnt get as much sugars in my first and second sparge due to such a large grain bill etc. Which is what you actually told me could happen in a post the other day.
But thats why I asked to confirm this.

And from what RdeVjun says here that is exactly why.

As noted, these larger grainbills aren't earth- shatteringly efficient with MaxiBIAB, however I think this was a great job on Truman's behalf, I myself did an English IPA a few weeks ago with 5.3kg in a 19L pot that yielded 21L of 1.058 in the fermenter (74% efficiency), although it was triple mini- sparged*. Here's the data if anyone is interested:
Step Volume(L) SG
1st Runnings 9.9 1.084
1st Sparge 3.8 1.053
2nd Sparge 4.2 1.034
3rd Sparge 2.4 1.034
Post- boil ~17L 1.072

My first post was just about the air space and my hotbreak problem. I never originally asked why my post boil sg was less than my preboil sg as I assumed it was due to the dilution during the boil.

But hey thanks for your input Nick.

 

[Truman42]

What a minute ... are we on the Truman Show?

LOL...Thats gold..

 

[Truman42]

If you'll excuse my bluntness, your somewhat deliberate obtuseness might be discouraging the "Move to AG" people out there who are considering it because of its simplicity, but reading this they are rethinking their abilities. Please take this into account.

And I would like to think that fellow noobs to BIAB are reading this and saying.."Shit I better make sure I don't make these same mistakes that this dickhead did"



Can you show me where in this thread Im showing "deliberate obtuseness"?

I'm asking why my post boil SG was lower than my preboil SG and giving my assumptions why I think it was so it can be confirmed...which it was.

 

[Nick JD]

I'm asking why my post boil SG was lower than my preboil SG and giving my assumptions why I think it was so it can be confirmed...which it was.

You knew this before you asked.

 

[kymba]

My first post was just about the air space and my hotbreak problem...

did you filter your hot break to get all the remaining wort? who cares why or how much there is, just stop tipping the wort into your cube when the break starts coming across and filter the rest. use this later on to add sub 15 minute hop additions

i got 4.5L of clear wort from the trub in a triple BIAB batch on the weekend

 

[Truman42]

You knew this before you asked.

No I assumed this and wanted it confirmed in case there was another reason why.

Becasue you know what happens when you ASS U ME

 

[Truman42]

did you filter your hot break to get all the remaining wort? who cares why or how much there is, just stop tipping the wort into your cube when the break starts coming across and filter the rest. use this later on to add sub 15 minute hop additions

i got 4.5L of clear wort from the trub in a triple BIAB batch on the weekend

I only ended up with about 2 litres of kettle trub so no I didnt filter the rest. Whats the best method to filter this? Can you just put some voile over your drain hole in the urn?

 

[pk.sax]

Have you ever been to another brewer's place to watch a brew day?

Ffs, do so. You aren't asking the wrong questions, just taking the long winded arse about way of getting answers. There's 2 kinds o brewers:

1) they can figure it all out, have little self doubt and can improve on what they did next time around with little or no help.
2) lots of doubts, might know what is happening but cannot make their minds up about anything. It really helps if you go "watch" others brew. A forum is a poor tool to really clear doubts. There are sonmany little things to learn you'd almost never get them (decisions) made and see results all on the Internet. I'm recommending you get around to someone's and see what they do. Put your notions and experiences aside and just evaluate what happens there and then rethink your process and see what would be an actual improvement.

People get angry with you because you should've already made the effort to go see a brewday and ask questions live. I can remember I yelled out on here when I stared out and got 3-4 very kind invitations. My mate and me went along and learnt a ton and drank ourselves silly on samples.

No reason why a 2) can't turn into a 1) once they have things a bit more sorted. But mate, make the effort and get out there.

 

[Truman42]

Have you ever been to another brewer's place to watch a brew day?

Ffs, do so. You aren't asking the wrong questions, just taking the long winded arse about way of getting answers. There's 2 kinds o brewers:

1) they can figure it all out, have little self doubt and can improve on what they did next time around with little or no help.
2) lots of doubts, might know what is happening but cannot make their minds up about anything. It really helps if you go "watch" others brew. A forum is a poor tool to really clear doubts. There are sonmany little things to learn you'd almost never get them (decisions) made and see results all on the Internet. I'm recommending you get around to someone's and see what they do. Put your notions and experiences aside and just evaluate what happens there and then rethink your process and see what would be an actual improvement.

People get angry with you because you should've already made the effort to go see a brewday and ask questions live. I can remember I yelled out on here when I stared out and got 3-4 very kind invitations. My mate and me went along and learnt a ton and drank ourselves silly on samples.

No reason why a 2) can't turn into a 1) once they have things a bit more sorted. But mate, make the effort and get out there.

I went to the BIAB demo at G&G awhile back and learnt the process, but they were doing full scale BIAB in a large pot and not trying to scale back using maxibiab techniques, and didnt sparge etc, so didn't really go into that.
I've been invited to watch a fellow AHBer do a brew but unfortunately was unable to attend both times. Will get there one day.

I agree I need to find someone who does MAXIBIAB and watch the process and see what they get. But all in all I think I understand the procedures and what the end result needs to be.

 

[kymba]

Whats the best method to filter this?

you are going to love this! http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww....p;x=15&y=13

 

[Truman42]

you are going to love this! http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww....p;x=15&y=13

Thanks..

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Whirlpool.

Chuck inside sieve on the lid of the fermenter.

Easy peasy.

Goomba

 

[Truman42]

Whirlpool.

Chuck inside sieve on the lid of the fermenter.

Easy peasy.

Goomba

Problem is I dont chill so transferring hot wort, and from what Ive learned you dont want this to fall from the top and aerate?

I was going to try placing a hop sock (boiled and sanitised) cable tied to the end of my hose the next time I brew a batch.

I actually tried this when racking my first brew and it managed to capture a lot of hop debris.

 

[Nick JD]

Problem is...

It's not a problem. Look in to what everyone else who whirlpools and no-chills does.

It's difficult to help when your help always comes back as not being helpful - please do some helping yourself - or people will start neglecting to help.

Here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/06/au...chnique-tested/

 

[Truman42]

It's not a problem. Look in to what everyone else who whirlpools and no-chills does.

It's difficult to help when your help always comes back as not being helpful - please do some helping yourself - or people will start neglecting to help.

Here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/06/au...chnique-tested/

Nick that is EXACTLY what I do and did for my last 3 batches.

Transferred hot wort into the cube and sat it in the garage to cool down slowly. But what Ive read on other previous posts and articles about transferring hot wort into a cube (And they dont mention it either way in that link you provided) is that you need to have your hose sitting in the bottom of your cube so as to minimise aeration into the cube, causing hotside aeration.

This was also covered by the guys at the G&G BIAB demo who also said not to let the wort fall from the top and put the hose in the bottom of the cube.

If I was to run it through a strainer sitting on top of my cube the falling hot wort would cause aeration? Is this not correct??? Because if it isn't then everything Ive read and been told about transferring hot wort is false????

Read my post..I didn't say the problem was transferring to a cube for no chilling. I said my problem was I don't chill so transferring hot wort through a strainer at the lid might cause aeration.

 

[Superoo]

My 2c...

I do biab but never whirlfloc / whirlpool.
The moment I turn the power off, the wort goes into the cube.

Have done about 12 no chills now.

The whole cube goes into the fermenter later, every drop.

I make light beer (3.2%), so theres nowhere to hide off flavours.

I primary at least 7 days, secondary 7 days, add finings and cold chill for at least 5 days.

My beers taste very clean, and are crystal clear.

I have yet to see evidence where the trub causes a problem.

Yes, theres more gunk in the bottom of my fermenter, but has no affect on flavour.

Maybe just try this approach once, and see if its worth the whirlflocing etc.

I thinks its probably just as important to get the wort into the cube HOT for sterilization, without letting it cool a bit while it whirlpools and settles.

cheers

Edit: Yes, I run silicone hose, to bottom of cube as well. Silicone hose is the home brewers friend. 2 metres of 3/8 and 2 metres of 1/2 will make your brewing experience much nicer.