2V vs 3V

[Jason_brews_beer]

Hi guys,

I have my first kit brew in the fermentor about 3-4 days away from bottling, although i think i screwed it up by not controlling the temp (has been up and down like a yo-yo between 18-24... I basically only got the kit to save on things I'll need for AG like a hydrometer/fermentor/airlock/free bottles/bla bla bla (the beer was just an added bonus!!!)

I'm kind of skipping kit brews in general and going straight to AG brewing (I like to tinker and will learn faster this way) and my biggest concern (or decision) is which way to go in terms of 2V vs 3V...

Essentially 3V is just adding another vessel so I'm not having to use the same vessel for the HLT and Boil Kettle but is it beneficial to a home brewer like myself? Does it speed up the process that much? I want a 50L Kettle so how big should i have the HLT?

These are the questions that stump me...

Any suggestions are welcome

 

[sp0rk]

Have you considered BIAB?

 

[Bribie G]

If you have a 50L kettle, whatever AG method you decide on it's a good idea to get it drilled out and a 3 piece tap inserted.

Then you can go 3V using a hot liquor tun and a mash tun to feed wort to the kettle, or just use it as single vessel doing BIAB. (see guide to BIAB in the all grain section).

What exactly do you understand by "2 vessel"


The temperature range 18 to 24 wouldn't do much harm, I'm currently doing a 17 - 22 brew. If the first couple of days were below 20 then I wouldn't be too concerned, in any case kit yeast is quite forgiving.

sp0rk beat me to it.

 

[idzy]

Three answers will help your decision:
-Types of beer
-Quantity
-Budget

 

[idzy]

Also space available. On phone.

 

[hsb]

I have 3V (4 if you count HERMS) but have found it more convenient just use my Kettle to heat strike/sparge water.
I mash out into plastic buckets, then tip the liquor into the kettle once I've done my sparge = 2V. One less thing to buy/store.

Although if you count buckets, it's a 5V! But they stack and are $5 each and you can definitely absolutely never have too many buckets in a brewery imo.

 

[Dunkelbrau]

If you only have two vessels how do you drain the mash tun to the kettle if it's filled with hot liquor?

I just went 3v because I'm eventually going HERMS..

 

[Grainer]

Go and see all the rigs before you jump and consider the costs..big differences... and depends how much you want to manipulate and be hands on.. I went for 4V cause I wanted to build my unit from scratch and enjoy all the perks with it.. ..eventually will upgrade the power..but this old house holds me back..

 

[Jason_brews_beer]

I did think about BIAB and went and read a bunch of articles and forums about it and what i generally find is although the process is more streamlined (i.e. 1pot/urn) and there are a few pluses for a small home brewery, it seems to be more hassle than its worth (i found a lot of complaints about grain getting suck in elements and urns not getting roiling boils and people doin modes and breaking urns...) and your limited to the size of the grain bag you can steep in the urn. So at that point i decided AG was the way for me.

I didnt want to use buckets to drain off my wort before sparging so although great idea to keep small (and you can't have too many buckets, agreed) but if thats the only way have a 2V i think 3V on a stepped racking system is the go.

Ive also looked into HERMS and i think starting an AG 3V is a good starting point. I can look at upgrading later on when i understand a bit more about HERMS and the other one i cant remember and why i would need it (justify the extra cost).

 

[Screwtop]

Starting out 3V, depending on the configuration - you have the opportunity to produce a variety of beer styles and OG's, plus test out batch or fly sparge in order to decide which method best suits you, your system or processes and results.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[manticle]

Small point Jason - BIAB is a method that produces AG wort so in that regard it is not separate from other AG processes. AG just means all grain. You can make your own bag - all vessels have limits whether HERMS, RIMS or bucket o' death.

Secondly - if you say you like to tinker, it's likely you'll go for the most complicated multi vessel system you can because tinkering can be as much fun as brewing.

All systems will produce quality wort when used correctly, all quality worts will produce quality beer when fermented, conditioned and packaged properly so it's really about what will give you the most pleasure. Are you good at constructing control boxes? Automated HERMS or braumester clone/knockoff might be your thing. Good at welding? Single tiered pumped 3V might be up your alley.

You can start from either end - single vessel and add in extra vessels to got 2V, 3V or even 4V or start with 3-4 and reduce if you find it doesn't suit. There's usually a market for quality, 2nd hand pots so they won't go to waste. It really is a personal thing though and depends entirely on what you see as pleasurable and what you see as inefficient or unnecessary work.

 

[Screwtop]

Secondly - if you say you like to tinker, it's likely you'll go for the most complicated multi vessel system you can because tinkering can be as much fun as brewing.

Just like he said..............Yessssss!

All systems will produce quality wort when used correctly, all quality worts will produce quality beer when fermented, conditioned and packaged properly

Too True!!!!!!!!!!!! The most important aspect of brewing, wort is easy to produce. Making good/great beer from it all comes down to fermentation management.



Screwy

 

[Jason_brews_beer]

Already I'm feeling my lack of knowledge spank me a bit! haha But thats why I'm here i guess. To keep on learning.

Thanks for all the info guys! Where is the best place to find second hand brew equipment?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Ghetto FTW. I'm making beer on my stove with less than $50 of equipment, in a sort of manual 3V.

Space, time, effort, budget will be your constraints and will determine the method of wort production that suits you best.

 

[Cocko]

Where is the best place to find second hand brew equipment?

You're posting at it! mate, keep an eye on the market place - plenty of great offerings come in most days.


To answer your OP, 3v is way rad - 4v is even better and if you really wanna make some great beer -16V is the only way.



Also, as posted above, budget depending and desired result will guide you in. Read up. Decide on some stuff that is best for you, being budget, space and desire of function.. and the rig will build itself. "Build it and he will come"

All the best.

5 metric cents. [Daves Rules]

 

[Jason_brews_beer]

I kind of should elaborate here.

I spent the last 2 years in England living in Leeds and London. In London I worked for a tech start-up (website and smart phone app) dedicated to ale and craft beer and where to find particular beer on pumps in which pubs. I managed the expansion of the app throughout pubs across the UK. In that time I got to visit many breweries, festivals (33 unique beers at The Great British Beer Fest, best - 'Dark Cherry Mild' by Kissingate Brewery & 'A-pork-alypse' (bacon) by SA Brains Craft arm), pubs and a lot of industry beer events not open to the public. Also got to wake up at the wrong bus/tube stop too many times to count.... It was there i decided i needed to start brewing as I'm not a lager fan and knew it would be cheaper as we get bent over and jammed by the tax in this country.

So I have spent the last 8 months researching, pricing, running numbers and all sorts of other jazz (yes, at some stage if this all goes well I plan on opening a craft brewery) before I just jumped in. I have watched over 50 hrs of YouTube (amateur and pro brewers), read 5 books (brewing techniques, beer tasting, food and beer, beer history), countless forums and articles and am currently enrolled in that free chemistry of beer course. I also plan on returning to the UK and do a 'Dip. of British Brewing Technologies' at University of Sunderland (run by BREWLAB, 9 weeks and not expensive) and spend time in America playing disc golf and seeing as many brewpubs and breweries as possible.

At the moment I'm currently looking for work in the industry (help!! haha) while I learn hands-on brewing and decide if its just going to supply me and my mates quality beer or if i go out into business.

I guess the overload of info had me a bit confused and I'm really glad i came across this site. Great source of info! GOLDMINE!!!!

Cheers guys!

Jason

 

[hsb]

If you only have two vessels how do you drain the mash tun to the kettle if it's filled with hot liquor?

I just went 3v because I'm eventually going HERMS..

I use the kettle to heat strike/sparge (it sits on gas burner anyway, so makes life easier, no moving pots.)

When I do 1st runnings, I just runoff into 20 litre buckets.

Once I've added my batch sparge water, I tip the buckets into the kettle and start heating.
I then repeat the bucket -> kettle process for 2nd runnings (to save having to plumb Mash Tun -> Kettle)

Benefit is one less pot is required and one less source of heat and less plumbing.
Downside is having 2 buckets.

For me it also makes it easier to accurately measure volumes, as buckets are easy to mark up.
Kettle is Stainless so would mean ruler dipped in, no big deal but another little thing.

It seems a simple way to save the money for buying a dedicated HLT and heat source for it.
But for others, maybe you already have HLT and heat source, maybe you hate buckets. I <3 buckets. Buckets are King!

I do have a HERMS, but that is a small dedicated 8-10 litre (never measured its volume) stainless vessel with coil, so of no use as a HLT.
I could recirculate through it to heat strike/sparge I suppose but that would just put more strain on pump and more plumbing/hassle.
I never liked the idea of HERMS in a HLT because of large water volume/slower ramping times, but I know it's the MO for Yanks.

No right answers but just an alternative method.

My kettle is 70 litres, my Mash Tun is a 50 litre keg.

Good luck OP, sounds like you are simultaneously exploring AG homebrew basics and full on industry scale brewing.
My tip is to shave your head and become a Benedictine monk, plenty of jobs to be had in Belgium

 

[Jason_brews_beer]

Good luck OP, sounds like you are simultaneously exploring AG homebrew basics and full on industry scale brewing.
My tip is to shave your head and become a Benedictine monk, plenty of jobs to be had in Belgium

Well... starting to homebrew and tentatively look at industry scale brewing. Although I would keep it craft and not mass produced (e.g. Tooheys, XXXX, etc). But for now im just enjoying learning how to brew all the diff types of beer!!