20l Stovetop All Grain Aussie Lager

[hellbent]

So ok let me try and get this right once and for all...
I get 3.5 grain and put it through the blender ( 400g dextrose to be added later pre-boil) Strike up 12 ltrs of water to 70c for a mash at 65c , put bag in pot, then add crushed grain , wrap the pot up in blankets and god knows what and mash for 90 mins.
What is an acceptable heat loss over that time??? last one I done for 60mins finished at 60c, actually I have been wondering if I sat my pot on my heat pad and wrap around a towel to keep temps up would that work or would it get too hot??
Ok so after 90 mins I lift bag out, drain it, squeeze the crap out of it, then transfer it over to another pot with 6 ltrs @ 75+C in it, open the bag up and stir the hell out of it again and leave it sit in there for 10 mins or so then lift and let drain over the bucket (green of course) ...
Ok then I combine all my wort into one pot, get my temps and readings, and stir in my 400g dextrose. Allowing for grain absorbtion I should have about 14-15l of wort @ 1.060 ready to boil.

Now from here on is where I'm ballsing things up, getting up to the 20ltrs.... Do I top the wort up with water to the 20ltr mark, bring to the boil, add my 27g Pride of Ringwood Hops and boil for 90 mins. this will prob leave me with about 15-16 ltrs after boil,so I then top up in pot or fermenter to bring it to 20 ltrs?
Or do I just boil the 14-15 ltr wort from the mash etc. and on boiling add 27g Pride of Ringwood Hops, boil in a nice easy boil for 90 mins and finish up with about a 10 ltr wort then top up in pot or fermenter to 20 ltrs?
Which is the proper and the best way to do it to finish up with good efficiency? is there another way to do it? this seems to be where I get into trouble and it throws my numbers all over the shop and I finish with a beer that tastes like dead set sour crap.

sorry for the length of this post and thanks for reading but I just need to find out exactly what is the correct way to do it. I'm tossing a lot of brew out lately and it hurts like crazy, (although the vegie garden loves it) I would appreciate any help or advice available on the subject.

 

[Nick JD]

Do I top the wort up with water to the 20ltr mark, bring to the boil, add my 27g Pride of Ringwood Hops and boil for 90 mins.

Not sure how you are going to manage adding 20L to a 19L pot but I'd be interested to watch someone try.

If your beer is coming out like sour crap - it's your fermenting that's the problem.

Follow the method at the start of this thread.

 

[lukasfab]

Hellbent,

sounds like you want to do MAXI BIAB

read this easy to understand guide
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=352

 

[Nick JD]

sounds like you want to do MAXI BIAB

How does MaxiBIAB differ from this tutorial?

 

[Nossil]

So ok let me try and get this right once and for all...
I get 3.5 grain and put it through the blender ( 400g dextrose to be added later pre-boil) Strike up 12 ltrs of water to 70c for a mash at 65c , put bag in pot, then add crushed grain , wrap the pot up in blankets and god knows what and mash for 90 mins.
What is an acceptable heat loss over that time??? last one I done for 60mins finished at 60c, actually I have been wondering if I sat my pot on my heat pad and wrap around a towel to keep temps up would that work or would it get too hot??
Ok so after 90 mins I lift bag out, drain it, squeeze the crap out of it, then transfer it over to another pot with 6 ltrs @ 75+C in it, open the bag up and stir the hell out of it again and leave it sit in there for 10 mins or so then lift and let drain over the bucket (green of course) ...
Ok then I combine all my wort into one pot, get my temps and readings, and stir in my 400g dextrose. Allowing for grain absorbtion I should have about 14-15l of wort @ 1.060 ready to boil.

Now from here on is where I'm ballsing things up, getting up to the 20ltrs.... Do I top the wort up with water to the 20ltr mark, bring to the boil, add my 27g Pride of Ringwood Hops and boil for 90 mins. this will prob leave me with about 15-16 ltrs after boil,so I then top up in pot or fermenter to bring it to 20 ltrs?
Or do I just boil the 14-15 ltr wort from the mash etc. and on boiling add 27g Pride of Ringwood Hops, boil in a nice easy boil for 90 mins and finish up with about a 10 ltr wort then top up in pot or fermenter to 20 ltrs?
Which is the proper and the best way to do it to finish up with good efficiency? is there another way to do it? this seems to be where I get into trouble and it throws my numbers all over the shop and I finish with a beer that tastes like dead set sour crap.

sorry for the length of this post and thanks for reading but I just need to find out exactly what is the correct way to do it. I'm tossing a lot of brew out lately and it hurts like crazy, (although the vegie garden loves it) I would appreciate any help or advice available on the subject.

As suggested a page or so back, I would make sure when boiling that you keep topping up with Sparge water. Keep sparging with the grain bag whilst boiling.

I was adding water to the boiling kettle (after the initial sparge) and getting terrible efficiency. I did a brew on the weekend where i kept topping up the kettle (nearly to the brim) with sparge water. Ended up getting 1.050 with around 17 or 18L or so (left a bit of hotbreak(?) in the pot).

Then after my first attempt at no-chilling, i added to the fermenter and topped up with 3 Litres of tap water to get around 1.043ish.

Doesn't the original tutorial call for only 60 mins boilding? I don't boil for 90 mins, 60 mins is fine for most recipes.

I also don't add dextrose, plenty of 'sugaz' converted from the grains.

If you 'stuff up' this method worst case scenario is weak beer... Not a big deal, it still tastes great! I'm currently drinking a mid strength Fat Yak @ approx 3.5% ABV.

As Nick was eluding to above, if you are getting sour beer i'd be checking your sanitasation and cleaning.. Don't stir your brew with that same wooden spoon you were just making scrambled eggs with!

Best advice I recieved was to keep adding sparge water to the kettle during the boil instead of plain tapwater -does wonders for efficiency.



I also think this thread, or a revamped version by Nick should be stickied.. has gotten SO many people into all grain, it is a great help.

 

[hellbent]

Not sure how you are going to manage adding 20L to a 19L pot but I'd be interested to watch someone try.

If your beer is coming out like sour crap - it's your fermenting that's the problem.

Follow the method at the start of this thread.

miracles do happen... Actually Nick it's BigW 19ltr which will take 20ltrs at a pinch,,,,sounds Irish dont it?
I will be keeping an eye on fermenting, I have a fridgemate set at 20c and varies from 20-22c and seems to be all ok, , maybe I could be bottling to early....10 days or so..... thanks for your advice NJD. Cheers

 

[hellbent]

As suggested a page or so back, I would make sure when boiling that you keep topping up with Sparge water. Keep sparging with the grain bag whilst boiling.

I was adding water to the boiling kettle (after the initial sparge) and getting terrible efficiency. I did a brew on the weekend where i kept topping up the kettle (nearly to the brim) with sparge water. Ended up getting 1.050 with around 17 or 18L or so (left a bit of hotbreak(?) in the pot).

Then after my first attempt at no-chilling, i added to the fermenter and topped up with 3 Litres of tap water to get around 1.043ish.

Doesn't the original tutorial call for only 60 mins boilding? I don't boil for 90 mins, 60 mins is fine for most recipes.

I also don't add dextrose, plenty of 'sugaz' converted from the grains.

If you 'stuff up' this method worst case scenario is weak beer... Not a big deal, it still tastes great! I'm currently drinking a mid strength Fat Yak @ approx 3.5% ABV.

As Nick was eluding to above, if you are getting sour beer i'd be checking your sanitasation and cleaning.. Don't stir your brew with that same wooden spoon you were just making scrambled eggs with!

Best advice I recieved was to keep adding sparge water to the kettle during the boil instead of plain tapwater -does wonders for efficiency.



I also think this thread, or a revamped version by Nick should be stickied.. has gotten SO many people into all grain, it is a great help.

Thanks mate for your reply, I like the idea of your progressive sparge water additions sounds quit logic I guess.... I think you will find that in the tutorial it was suggested the addition of dextrose could improve the end product but on reflection maybe I would be best just keeping to the tutorial. In the Tutorial Nick said "This mash is going for 90 minutes." so 90 mins it will be. although I wonder if I can hold my temperatures for that long.... I'm starting to think you may be right with the problem being in fermentation....I sterelise everything after the boil with Idophor including my long stirring spoon from LHBS. I use the no chill method and usually leave it in the cube overnight before bringing back up to 20c in morning then adding yeast ,maybe something there, dunno, will be extra aware of my sanitation this coming brew , You make a totally good suggestion re the sparge water and I'll try that.
BTW I agree that a revamped Version By NickJB should definitely be stickied. the guys a legend and his tutorials and inputs are always more than helpful.

 

[lukasfab]

How does MaxiBIAB differ from this tutorial?

it doesn't, sorry thought this was the 9l job and he was trying to achieve full volume

 

[soundawake]

One question...

I am having a second go at this on friday, brewing a DrSmurto's GA. I'd like to cube the wort instead of just gladwrapping the pot to cool overnight, but obviously my 19L pot doesn't have a tap. I'd have to pour it out the top through a large funnel to get it into the cube. My worry is that this would possibly oxygenate the wort which would increase the chances of infection.. Or am I worrying over nothing?

 

[glenwal]

One question...

I am having a second go at this on friday, brewing a DrSmurto's GA. I'd like to cube the wort instead of just gladwrapping the pot to cool overnight, but obviously my 19L pot doesn't have a tap. I'd have to pour it out the top through a large funnel to get it into the cube. My worry is that this would possibly oxygenate the wort which would increase the chances of infection.. Or am I worrying over nothing?

one word...



siphon

 

[keifer33]

These are the bomb (no affiliation)

http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=348

 

[soundawake]

one word...



siphon

Six words....

Of course, how silly of me!

 

[soundawake]

These are the bomb (no affiliation)

http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=348

Cheers man, I've emailed them to see if I can have one arrive by friday as that's my planned brew day.

 

[Nick JD]

Hot Side Aeration is what you'd be worried about if you were pouring into the cube with a funnel.

Should you worry about HSA? Jury's out on that one - I saw a photo once of a brewery (might have been urquell) where there was a huge frothing pipe squirting hot wort into another vessel for cooling.

Some people worry about HSA, should the Stovetop brewer? Not sure.

 

[Nossil]

I bought a siphon from bunnings on the weekend, but didn't look anywhere as durable as the one linked above.

Put it in my hot wort and it melted...


Lesson: Plastic siphon in 100+*c wort not a good idea.


I think the tube might be silicon though, so I just took the end part off and used some tapwater to start the siphon.




You could try pouring it in through a funnel, but instead of worrying about infections or HSA as Nick referred to above, I'd be worried about pouring boiling wort on the floor or yourself!

 

[soundawake]

Thanks for all your speedy replies fellas. Silicon tubing and a siphon valve have been ordered and paid for. I am raising my beer glass to you guys and the power of the internet.

POWA

 

[stm]

Soundawake - just cool the wort a bit in an ice bath, then you can use standard plastic hosing for your syphon. You do not want to try pouring the wort out of the pot into a funnel - it will end up on the floor, as Nossil suggests. HSA is the least of your worries! Fill the hose with tap water to get it started. (You are probably topping up the fermenter with tap water anyway, so no big deal.)

Hellbent - given your ongoing problems, maybe best to follow the KISS rule for the next few brews. Eg, just aim for say 15L into the fermenter. Mash 3.5kg as per usual in 12L for 60 min, drain bag with the dunk sparge in the second pot, drain this and pour into first pot. Top up to say 18L then boil for 60 min with hops. No dextrose, no continuous topping up. You'll end up with say 15L. Chill in ice bath (more quickly than no chill), then into fermenter and pitch yeast. Very simple and higher chance of success (but a smaller batch obviously). Once you get this right, start experimenting with the more complex processes to get bigger batches or higher gravity. (Your mash temp dropping to 60 over one hour is probably not a major concern - much of the conversion happens early in the mash. Maybe try a sleeping bag, or starting at 67, if it concerns you.)

 

[jazzad1]

I came across this thread about a week ago, and was looking to get a 40L urn to start all grain brewing, 2 x 19L pots from Big W are a lot cheaper and the process today went really well!

I used 4kg of Joe White Traditional Ale malt from G & G (I bought 25kg to experiment with, and got them to crush it)

mashed at 66 degrees, verified with a thermocouple from my PID controller, I also bought a floating thermometer from G & G and it is out by 6-7 degrees C. It read 77-78 when my thermocouple read 71, the thermocouple has been calibrated at freezing and boiling points of water at my elevation. The floating thermometer only cost $9 or so but it is still something to keep an eye on, it could screw up the mash I imagine.

I sparged with 6 litres, which left me with not a lot of room in the pot for the boil, but it all worked out ok. I found out my gas stove top only just has enough heat to get the 18 or so litres to boil, but it wasn't super vigorous, I'll be looking into buying an immersion heater for the next brew I think.

After dilution to just under 20 litres I ended up with an OG of 1.044 so I'm really pleased with the results, all the squeezing paid off! About that, I might construct this for next time, making a relatively simple process into damn near effortless one!
BIAB Bag Press

I think I will siphon the wort straight into a no-chill cube next time, less opportunity for spills and less time taken up cooling the pot in the sink/bath.

Thanks to Nick JD for establishing this thread, it is excellent! A great introduction to all grain brewing and its processes.

 

[hellbent]

Soundawake - just cool the wort a bit in an ice bath, then you can use standard plastic hosing for your syphon. You do not want to try pouring the wort out of the pot into a funnel - it will end up on the floor, as Nossil suggests. HSA is the least of your worries! Fill the hose with tap water to get it started. (You are probably topping up the fermenter with tap water anyway, so no big deal.)

Hellbent - given your ongoing problems, maybe best to follow the KISS rule for the next few brews. Eg, just aim for say 15L into the fermenter. Mash 3.5kg as per usual in 12L for 60 min, drain bag with the dunk sparge in the second pot, drain this and pour into first pot. Top up to say 18L then boil for 60 min with hops. No dextrose, no continuous topping up. You'll end up with say 15L. Chill in ice bath (more quickly than no chill), then into fermenter and pitch yeast. Very simple and higher chance of success (but a smaller batch obviously). Once you get this right, start experimenting with the more complex processes to get bigger batches or higher gravity. (Your mash temp dropping to 60 over one hour is probably not a major concern - much of the conversion happens early in the mash. Maybe try a sleeping bag, or starting at 67, if it concerns you.)

Thanks for the advice mate and some how you may be right, maybe a straight forward 15ltr brew for a while isn't a bad idea. I am totally frustrated by my lack of success and have been spending hours reading up in AHB and any other forum I can find, I have nearly worn google out with queries and such, but I now feel as though it's within my reach at the moment, I reckon this is the one. A couple of the guys suggested maybe sanitary causes may be the problem so I will be having a big look at that. I'm sure once I get it right once then the floodgates will open. I don't like asking frivolous questions in the forum but I am a very slow learner and some times they must be asked, one thing I have learnt over the years is when in doubt ask. cheers

 

[sgw86]

Hi,

I attempted my first Stovetop AG on the weekend and think I did fairly well! I ended up brewing the below recipe

3.5kg Joe White Pilsner Malt
400g Dextrose

I took an SG reading before adding the yeast and got a reading of 1050.

One thing I did do though was I poured the entire contents of the pot into the fermenter...There was a fair bit of gunk (is this hot break?) that went in as well.....

Major concern is this will destroy the taste? I had about 14L in the pot that was added to the Fermenter and I topped the fermenter up to 20L with cold water.

Next time is it best to pour the contents of the pot through a colander to try and remove adding some of the hot break?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers,

Sam.