20l Stovetop All Grain Aussie Lager

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

This may be a silly question....

Nick you state the sweet spot for the 19ltr pot method is 3.5kg of Grain and 17 litres.. do you mean only dilute to 17 ltrs in the fermenter or a 17 ltr mash/boil?

I have been wanting to do a bigger IPA type beer with this method, could you share your grain bill for the 14 litre cascade IPA you mention to get an idea of what you did?

Thanks again from a noob

Boil longer.

If I do a 90 minute plus boil, I can (without too much effort) get 1.070 gravity at 23L from my two pot system, so a 14L IPA wouldn't be out of the question - it's just the time factor involved.

 

[thylacine]

I did my second and third ever biab 20L stovetop batches over the weekend.


I'm having a bit of trouble with efficiency (i think?).

4kg grains, after topping up to 18 or 19L only getting around 1.040. Never higher.


Mash @ around 64/65 *C for 90 minutes. Usually only losing 1 maybe 2 degrees over that time.

For sparging I heat around 4L of 70*c in a seperate pot, then after the mash I put the grain bag into a big bucket, open it up and poor the 4L of water over the grains. Then I dunk it in like a teapag a dozen or so time. Then tie it to the door handle and wait for 10 mins whilst it drips. Then i squeeze the juices from it as best i can and add the contents in the bucket back to the 19L boil.


After 1hr boiling usually left with around 11L in the pot. Topping up another 7 or 8L gives my 1.040.

Does this sound about right? Final ABV should be roughly 4% if FG is around 1.010.


My ex-FWK containers are now my fermenters. ie. 15-15.5L batch size. I use 3.1 kgs base malt and 200-400g specialty grains. Similar to your process description, I use two Big W pots. The second for a dunk sparge. ie. 14L strike water, cover & mash for 90min minimum. second pot has 8L heated to 78c and when the bag & grains are inserted into this pot I give the grains a steady stir for a few minutes. I also always perform a mash-out to 78c, stirring continually. My OG is consistently 1050-1054

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry921224

Cheers




What's the next step up from the stovetop? Suppose buying a 30L Urn to do full volume mash?

 

[Nick JD]

do you mean only dilute to 17 ltrs in the fermenter or a 17 ltr mash/boil?

I have been wanting to do a bigger IPA type beer with this method, could you share your grain bill for the 14 litre cascade IPA you mention to get an idea of what you did?

Follow the same methodology as with the 20L brew (but without any sparging) - do a ~17-18L mash with 3.5kg, squeeze the bag and return runnings to the pot, top up to ~14L, boil, then top up to 17L in the fermenter. Probably be about 1.050, depends on your gear and processes.

NZ Cascade IPA
American IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 14.0
Total Grain (kg): 3.900
Total Hops (g): 55.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.068 (P): 16.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (P): 4.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.86 %
Colour (SRM): 9.4 (EBC): 18.5
Bitterness (IBU): 57.9 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
3.500 kg Pale Ale Malt (89.74%)
0.200 kg Cane Sugar (5.13%)
0.200 kg Caramunich III (5.13%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Galena Pellet (10% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)
30.0 g Cascade Pellet (8.9% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (2.1 g/L)
5.0 g Galaxy Pellet (13.4% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 64C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05

This stovetop caper is all about altering your volume, not your grain amount. Same grain bill every time (~3.5kg) ... different volume. You get 23L of a mild, you only get 14L of a strong.

 

[paulmclaren11]

Great thanks again Nick

 

[flano]

any reason why the grain is milled to almost a fine powder for BIAB?

I use a monster mill and it is nowhere near a fine powder.....still works...still tastes good....still get me pissed....still gets my mates coming over and drinking my beer then leaving ...stills gives me some cracking hangovers.

Will my beer be better with a finer milling using BIAB?

CHEERS.

 

[Nick JD]

Will my beer be better with a finer milling using BIAB?

No.

People who mill fine do it because they haven't got a mill but are using kitchen appliances which don't crack the grains but smash them up.

Does it makes a worse beer? I can't tell the difference, and I've brewed the same recipe with store-milled and blender-milled. They are both great.

Will it make a difference to my efficiency? Yes - you'll probably get about 5% more, but this comes at a cost of more trub (not really an issue) and a slower-draining bag, and more doughballs.

This thread is not intended for those who are willing to shell out $200 on a mill; it's for people who want to try AG brewing and don't want to spend that much ... yet.

 

[flano]

No.

People who mill fine do it because they haven't got a mill but are using kitchen appliances which don't crack the grains but smash them up.

Does it makes a worse beer? I can't tell the difference, and I've brewed the same recipe with store-milled and blender-milled. They are both great.

Will it make a difference to my efficiency? Yes - you'll probably get about 5% more, but this comes at a cost of more trub (not really an issue) and a slower-draining bag, and more doughballs.

This thread is not intended for those who are willing to shell out $200 on a mill; it's for people who want to try AG brewing and don't want to spend that much ... yet.

cheers mate,

I have noticed the ease in mashing it less milled...no dough balls.

Loving the BIAB by the way ...made a great american pale ale using your technique... a fair whack of dark crystal in it and dry hopped with .
Bit of a fluke beer...threw what I had laying around in.

One mate reckons it is as good as any good quality micro brewed stuff. ...and he is a piss head.

 

[soundawake]

Well, I finally got around to trying this out a couple of weeks ago. Followed instructions to the letter except I used a Coopers Pale clone grain bill with recultured Coopers yeast instead.

Efficiency was in the toilet. After letting it cool overnight, I poured it into the fermenter and only got about 8 litres. Topped up to 19 L and ended up with an OG of 1.030. D'oh! I should have topped up only to 15L or so. In hindsight I also should have used one of the calcs on Brewmate to add dex or LDME to get the gravity to where it should have been - around 1.042. One thing I also forgot to do was add half a whirlfloc tablet near the end of the boil. This would have helped! What an *****.

Not to worry, I did plan to possibly toss this beer out if it wasn't good and use it as a pure training/learning exercise.

Next one I plan to do is Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, although I'll need a hopsock for that due to multiple hop additions (I used a stainless hopball for the single addition of POR last time).

 

[Nossil]

I kegged & gellatined the beer in this thread last friday and tried it last night..

Was pretty good! Dead ringer for Carlton Draught. Not my drink of choice but the purpose of my first BIAB was to follow Nick's instructions exactly and see what i got. So the experiment worked!

Pretty poor head retention (even after adding in i think 100-200grams of carapills grain -the only modification to the initial instructions). One day i'll get around to figuring out how to maintain a decent head. At least the beer taste good thats the main thing.



Pic attached, not sure if the gellatine helped with the clarity or if thats the way it would have looked without the gellatine anyway. Thoughts?

 

[Nick JD]

Well, I finally got around to trying this out a couple of weeks ago. Followed instructions to the letter except I used a Coopers Pale clone grain bill with recultured Coopers yeast instead.

Efficiency was in the toilet. After letting it cool overnight, I poured it into the fermenter and only got about 8 litres. Topped up to 19 L and ended up with an OG of 1.030. D'oh! I should have topped up only to 15L or so. In hindsight I also should have used one of the calcs on Brewmate to add dex or LDME to get the gravity to where it should have been - around 1.042. One thing I also forgot to do was add half a whirlfloc tablet near the end of the boil. This would have helped! What an *****.

Not to worry, I did plan to possibly toss this beer out if it wasn't good and use it as a pure training/learning exercise.

Next one I plan to do is Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, although I'll need a hopsock for that due to multiple hop additions (I used a stainless hopball for the single addition of POR last time).

 

[glenwal]

Was pretty good! Dead ringer for Carlton Draught.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron

 

[soundawake]

LOL yep, my exact quote to my friend who was helping was 'well, I think I've made a Mild Ale.'

I should add - Nick, thanks for making these easy as piss tutorials available on AHB. They were the sole reason I decided to try out all grain.

 

[Nick JD]

Pic attached, not sure if the gellatine helped with the clarity or if thats the way it would have looked without the gellatine anyway. Thoughts?

Looks great!

Gelatine works a treat with yeasts that aren't very flocculant. On yeasts that are, it doesn't really do much as those yeasts like to clump and fall anyway.

Most of the dried lager yeasts aren't great at flocculating out - but I often use it just to speed up the process in an Aussie Lager type beer, because why wait for ages for something with POR in it! My Euro lagers get a bit of cold conditioning though, so often don't get gelatined. S189 will get crystal clear in a week of secondary at <7C, so will 34/70.

 

[Nossil]

I haven't started experimenting with different yeasts yet. Sticking the the Safale 05 for the moment, experimenting with recycling the trub. After a get a few more brews under my belt I'll branch out into different yeasts. So not to sure if gelatine is helping s05 yeast clump together but its not hurting it

I don't have a fridge for cold crashing either.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron

hahahahaha, i know i know. Its not terrible, but its pretty good.

My second and third BIAB batches a brewing at the moment. Truckloads of cascade and Nelson sauvin hops with some different grains... judging how this beer came out pretty good, i think this next beer will be freakin awesome

 

[Nick JD]

So not to sure if gelatine is helping s05 yeast clump together but its not hurting it

US05? The gelatine is fully helping that.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

US05? The gelatine is fully helping that.

+1

 

[Nossil]

US05? The gelatine is fully helping that.

Yep thats the one. In the pink packet.
Good to know!

 

[sgw86]

Hi All,

I have spent the better part of today reading through this thread and am now quite excited to attempt to move into AG using Nick's method. I have recently been brewing Extract with Specality grains and have had some great results though really wanted to move to AG using my original 19L BigW stockpot. So thanks to Nick for the tutorial.

I have just a few quick questions before I dive in and have a crack. I will be using my 19L stockpot.


1. Can I use this as my bag to hold the grain? http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8822 I see people going to spotlight etc. but will the one at G&G do the job?

2. I will be topping the fermenter up with chilled water to achieve the 21L for fermentation. So boiling with 12-14L as suggested. Do I need to sparge and when is it required to sparge (will be following Nicks sparging guide)

3. What is the limit of grain that can be used for this method using the 12L suggested for the mash.

I will probably have more questions as I try to wrap my head around the method and AG brewing but thanks in advance for the help.



Cheers.

 

[glenwal]

1. Can I use this as my bag to hold the grain? http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8822 I see people going to spotlight etc. but will the one at G&G do the job?

Definately - the sheet of voile from spotlight is just the tight *** version.

2. I will be topping the fermenter up with chilled water to achieve the 21L for fermentation.

Don't plan on topping up to 21L. Measure your gravity when you're done and top up based on the OG you want to achieve.

Do I need to sparge and when is it required to sparge (will be following Nicks sparging guide)

Yes, you'll need to sparge - i'd recommend topping the pot up with sparge water before the boil to as full as your comfortable with (not too full or it'll boil over and make a mess), and as you boil off liquid, top back up with sparge water. The more sparge water you can squeeze in (instead of topping up with plain water) the better your efficiency and hence the more beer you'll get.

3. What is the limit of grain that can be used for this method using the 12L suggested for the mash.

If you want to make your life easy, stick to 3-3.5kg grain max (note: you won't get 21L, maybe 15-17L). With a good sparge and effort though you can push it up to about 4.5kg without issues

 

[sgw86]

Definately - the sheet of voile from spotlight is just the tight *** version.

Don't plan on topping up to 21L. Measure your gravity when you're done and top up based on the OG you want to achieve.

Yes, you'll need to sparge - i'd recommend topping the pot up with sparge water before the boil to as full as your comfortable with (not too full or it'll boil over and make a mess), and as you boil off liquid, top back up with sparge water. The more sparge water you can squeeze in (instead of topping up with plain water) the better your efficiency and hence the more beer you'll get.


If you want to make your life easy, stick to 3-3.5kg grain max (note: you won't get 21L, maybe 15-17L). With a good sparge and effort though you can push it up to about 4.5kg without issues

Thanks for the feedback mate. I will follow the exact method posted by Nick on the first page for my first attempt. Coming from doing Extract I included Dextrose in nearly all my brews....and I usually am only brewing Lagers or Pilsners lately. If I follow the boil size etc. from the initial method posted by Nick but add say 400-500g of Dextrose to the 60min Boil this will increase my Alc % if I top the fermenter up to 20-21L?

So not to create too many posts I was thinking for my first attempt to create an Aussie Lager similar to say a Draught (I know people will frown on this).

3-3.5kg Pilsner Malt (Perhaps Joe White Pilsner Malt from G&G)
400g Dextrose

90min mash @ 65C

As for crushing the grain do I need to blitz it in a coffee grinder or will I get the same efficiency if I get G&G to mill the grain for me?

Cheers,

Sam.