20l Stovetop All Grain Aussie Lager

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

..... but i figure with this small a batch, the experience is worth more than the beer
Thanks nick, great guide.

That's the essence of it.

Making AG beer in 9L lots is (alongside fermenting at 30 degrees and finding that the beer is awful) a quick way to get fed up with brewing.

Use 9L for experience, not for long term brewing.

And find your own way to brew full sized batches.

The fact that I do full sized on the stove is proof that you needn't obtain large amounts of expensive equipment to make beer.

Goomba

 

[Steve@PMF82]

That's the essence of it.

Making AG beer in 9L lots is (alongside fermenting at 30 degrees and finding that the beer is awful) a quick way to get fed up with brewing.

Use 9L for experience, not for long term brewing.

And find your own way to brew full sized batches.

The fact that I do full sized on the stove is proof that you needn't obtain large amounts of expensive equipment to make beer.

Goomba

Funny that i am completely the opposite.
Brewing large batches of the same beer that i would have to drink my way through would be a very quick way for me to become fed up with brewing.
All depends on how much you intend to drink and how quickly, variety is the spice of life and fresh is best and i also enjoy "having" to brew more often....

 

[Nick JD]

Make whatever sized batch you like. It's your liver.

 

[Maheel]

id make 9L batches if i had some 9L kegs

 

[Nick JD]

id make 9L batches if i had some 9L kegs

I regularly put as little as 12L in a 19L keg. Where's the rule that says you have to fill them?

 

[Darkonnis]

Pan arrived, made a batch up. I was initially going to go for a smash. but in the end i looked at it and thought well **** it. whats the worst that can happen (7L or undrinkable beer?)
1kg Munich malt
1kg Maris Otter
13g Phoenix hops for 15 mins.
OG according to the calculator posted earlier on this thread was 1069 so its likely i should have topped it up with some water but its done now.
Wasn't as easy as i was expecting actually. But that was mostly down to me having a small kitchen, no free work tops and no bowl big enough to get all of my grain into, taste quite nice though.
****** up the yeast though, completely forgot to sterilise the glass i put half my s04 in and the other half i hydrated in a sterile glass just didnt feel like playing. As i was splitting my brew into two 5L demijons anyway i just split the wort and yeast and marked the non sterile yeast one just on the off chance. The non sterile one got straight to it and at present is churning over with foam etc etc and the sterile one is quitely going about its business with a thing layer of foam. Just have to see how it goes. It'll go better next time

 

[kierent]

This quote from Nick's original tutorial...

I would have taken an OG but as you can see the water is sitting on top of the wort! I'll have to give it a while to let it homogenize and then get an OG.

First of all, thanks Nick, ripper tutorial! I'm sitting down for the 90min mash phase as we speak but just had a quick question about this. When you say the water is sitting on top of the wort is that because you have to add the water and not mix it to the wort for some reason, or just that even after adding the water it doesn't mix properly until the yeast starts eating?

I've only done partials before this but have always thought a good shake of the wort aids oxygen levels and therefore yeast performance. Is this right for AG too? So can I add water to correct volume, shake and then do the OG? Not necessarily expecting an answer in time for this brew but I plan on brewing like this in future so would be good to know.

Thanks

 

[RdeVjun]

Yep, its an awesome thread is this Kieren! :beerbang:
I'd say it was because the water didn't mix well with the concentrated wort when added initially, that's no biggie. There's loads of turbulence to mix things up once the yeast get going, but if you want an accurate OG value, it probably won't hurt to mix it up before then. Either way, you'll end up with beer, loads of it in fact! :icon_cheers:
Yes, aeration will help just about every starting wort, so don't be afraid to splash it about but just keep it all sanitary, however once your wort has had yeast for a few days- no more oxygenation is necessary.

 

[kierent]

Thanks for the quick response!! Cheers :beerbang:

 

[lukiferj]

Thanks Nick! Great simple to follow instructions. Will look at doing my first BIAB in the next few weeks once some of my current equipment frees up.

Cheers,
Luke

 

[paulmclaren11]

I have now done this method 3 times, and it is easy as and the quality is great and worth the extra time.

Following Nick JD's advice I bought a coffee grinder to get a consistent mill and take it to a fine powder.

However, when I add the grain once at strike temp I am getting heaps of dough balls! I think it takes me about 5 mins to get rid of them all.

Am I grinding too fine... or is this the norm? Trying to mash all the balls out has reduced my mash temps a little, but as I am still learning the AG caper I am not that fussed and have been hitting close to the numbers I want.

Is there a technique to be used when adding this finely ground grain - I have been adding it all at once.


Cheers again, I am hooked on AG now!

 

[Nick JD]

I have now done this method 3 times, and it is easy as and the quality is great and worth the extra time.

Following Nick JD's advice I bought a coffee grinder to get a consistent mill and take it to a fine powder.

However, when I add the grain once at strike temp I am getting heaps of dough balls! I think it takes me about 5 mins to get rid of them all.

Am I grinding too fine... or is this the norm? Trying to mash all the balls out has reduced my mash temps a little, but as I am still learning the AG caper I am not that fussed and have been hitting close to the numbers I want.

Is there a technique to be used when adding this finely ground grain - I have been adding it all at once.


Cheers again, I am hooked on AG now!

Here's a way to sort out an extremely fine mash and dough balls.

Fill up only to about 8~9L with just hot tap water, put in your bag and then dump in your grain. You should end up (of course this depends on your hot tap water temp) with about 45-50C mash.

This is below the temperature that the starch will dough-up, so you just get a nice thick, slippery porridge.

Put 2L of water in the coffee kettle and boil it. This will give you about 52-55C when you add it (while stiriring). By the time the kettle has boiled again, you've done a few minute protein rest.

Add the next 2L and you'll get up to ~62C. You can leave it here if you want a dry beer, or you can add another 2L and get up to ~66C. You've probably hit the rim of the 19L pot about there.

This will both eliminate doughballs, give you a wicked efficiency and give you most of the benefits of an stepped infusion mash ... just gotta boil the kettle 3 or 4 times.

Alternatively, get your HBS to mill your grain or cough up a few hundred for a mill setup.

I infuse often (usually 45C, 52C, 60C, 64C) because it makes a better beer. Dry with head-retention.

Once you work out your gear you can put the lid on in these periods between adding the next kettle and do a full on stepped mash. Takes notes and refine. Google "Hochkurz mash".

 

[paulmclaren11]

Great thanks Nick, will give this a go next time I do it.

I can already see me upgrading to larger scale gear once the wifey lets me.... ;0

 

[Nossil]

I did my second and third ever biab 20L stovetop batches over the weekend.


I'm having a bit of trouble with efficiency (i think?).

4kg grains, after topping up to 18 or 19L only getting around 1.040. Never higher.


Mash @ around 64/65 *C for 90 minutes. Usually only losing 1 maybe 2 degrees over that time.

For sparging I heat around 4L of 70*c in a seperate pot, then after the mash I put the grain bag into a big bucket, open it up and poor the 4L of water over the grains. Then I dunk it in like a teapag a dozen or so time. Then tie it to the door handle and wait for 10 mins whilst it drips. Then i squeeze the juices from it as best i can and add the contents in the bucket back to the 19L boil.


After 1hr boiling usually left with around 11L in the pot. Topping up another 7 or 8L gives my 1.040.

Does this sound about right? Final ABV should be roughly 4% if FG is around 1.010.




What's the next step up from the stovetop? Suppose buying a 30L Urn to do full volume mash?

 

[glenwal]

20L batches/4KG of grain on a stovetop is pushing the limits, so you have to work hard for it. For your 2nd or 3rd attempt, your results sound pretty good. I still do all my brewing in a big W pot, and hit about 85% efficiency for a 20L batch. The most important things (that i've found) are

- Fill your pot to the brim for the mash.

- A 90 min (or longer) boil. The additional boil time means more boil off, which means you can top up with more sparge water.

- A really good sparge. You'll want more than 4L of sparge water. I top up the pot up with sparge water pre-boil (whilst it's comming up to the boil), and then again during the boil (until about 15-20mins from the end). Keeping the pot topped up (lean how full you can go without boiling over) with sparge water during the boil means you keep adding more sugar and improving your efficiency. Then I only need a couple of liters of water to top up in the fermenter.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

20L batches/4KG of grain on a stovetop is pushing the limits, so you have to work hard for it. For your 2nd or 3rd attempt, your results sound pretty good. I still do all my brewing in a big W pot, and hit about 85% efficiency for a 20L batch. The most important things (that i've found) are

- Fill your pot to the brim for the mash.

- A 90 min (or longer) boil. The additional boil time means more boil off, which means you can top up with more sparge water.

- A really good sparge. You'll want more than 4L of sparge water. I top up the pot up with sparge water pre-boil (whilst it's comming up to the boil), and then again during the boil (until about 15-20mins from the end). Keeping the pot topped up (lean how full you can go without boiling over) with sparge water during the boil means you keep adding more sugar and improving your efficiency. Then I only need a couple of liters of water to top up in the fermenter.

+1 - all sound advice.

I now use my ghetto lauter to sparge in - less labour and higher efficiency despite less labour. Now consistently around 85% and not the same labour as I did when trying to bucket sparge/pasta pot sparge with BIAB.

 

[Nick JD]

I very rarely do 20L batches. Yesterday I did a 14L batch of cascade IPA.

Two ways of dealing with 1 pot stove brewing: accept that 15-17L batches are easy and cope with that; or buy some big gear.

Sweet spot with this method is 3.5kg and 17L, no sparging necessary - just a hefty squeeze. You lose 3L, but you really don't lose any sugaz.

Also, 250g of sucrose is perfectly accepable in a lager like this, and will give you an extra 0.5% or 1.005 for nix.

If you wanna make a really big beer, just don't (or a tiny bit) dilute.

 

[paulmclaren11]

This may be a silly question....

Nick you state the sweet spot for the 19ltr pot method is 3.5kg of Grain and 17 litres.. do you mean only dilute to 17 ltrs in the fermenter or a 17 ltr mash/boil?

I have been wanting to do a bigger IPA type beer with this method, could you share your grain bill for the 14 litre cascade IPA you mention to get an idea of what you did?

Thanks again from a noob

 

[Nossil]

20L batches/4KG of grain on a stovetop is pushing the limits, so you have to work hard for it. For your 2nd or 3rd attempt, your results sound pretty good. I still do all my brewing in a big W pot, and hit about 85% efficiency for a 20L batch. The most important things (that i've found) are

- Fill your pot to the brim for the mash.

- A 90 min (or longer) boil. The additional boil time means more boil off, which means you can top up with more sparge water.

- A really good sparge. You'll want more than 4L of sparge water. I top up the pot up with sparge water pre-boil (whilst it's comming up to the boil), and then again during the boil (until about 15-20mins from the end). Keeping the pot topped up (lean how full you can go without boiling over) with sparge water during the boil means you keep adding more sugar and improving your efficiency. Then I only need a couple of liters of water to top up in the fermenter.

Great advice, thanks.

Would never have thought to keep sparging after adding the initial sparge wort to the boiler! Makes so much sense that the efficiency will increase if you add sparge water instead of tap water!

1 Question though, lets just say you are 15 minutes out from flame-out, and you add another say 2-3 litres of precious sparge wort, this stops the boil temporarily as the sparge water will be cooler (lets say its cooled to 60*c during the final sparge process). As the boil has stopped, and takes another say 5-10 minutes to get back to full boil do you pause the boil time until it reaches boiling again?

 

[glenwal]

1 Question though, lets just say you are 15 minutes out from flame-out, and you add another say 2-3 litres of precious sparge wort, this stops the boil temporarily as the sparge water will be cooler (lets say its cooled to 60*c during the final sparge process). As the boil has stopped, and takes another say 5-10 minutes to get back to full boil do you pause the boil time until it reaches boiling again?

I generally try to add smaller quantities (about 500ml) more often so it doesn't kill the boil. The other alternative is to bring the sparge water up to temp in a 2nd smaller pot.