20l Stovetop All Grain Aussie Lager

[Cocko]

I did a cascade and corriander one last time.
I just chucked a whole bunch of chopped fresh corriander roots and all in the hops bag about 20 from the end.
Came out great.could'nt even taste the corriander

Umm.. so what did the coriander add to the beer?

 

[Nick JD]

Nick, it will soon be a year since this thread started. Are you still on the original coffee grinder, or have you gone through a couple during the year? I've recently bought a Marga but thinking that the coffee grinder would be a good piece of kit to zap up small batches of Crystal etc - I expect the unmilled grains keep fresher than pre-milled.

Still the original Sunbeam. I'm losing track now, but it's got to be close, if not over 150kg that's gone through the thing.

Where I think it'll finally kick the bucket is the lid. There are a few cracks and chips on the rim - I suspect from the occasional pebble/stone that can be in the grain.

It gets warm doing 4kg, and I make sure to wipe the dust that accumulates on the base (where the cooling vents are) each kg, but I'm as surprised as anyone that it's still going.

 

[bluejay]

Thanks for the thread. Seems like a very interesting and manageable technique for a beginner like myself.

One thing I don't understand though is how can 4kg of grain be enough for 20L of beer. I thought the general rule was 1kg of grain per 3 Litres of beer.

Is it because the grain is ground down so much that the efficiency is much higher?

 

[RdeVjun]

Thanks for the thread. Seems like a very interesting and manageable technique for a beginner like myself.

One thing I don't understand though is how can 4kg of grain be enough for 20L of beer. I thought the general rule was 1kg of grain per 3 Litres of beer.

Is it because the grain is ground down so much that the efficiency is much higher?

No, it is not because of efficiency bluejay, more that the method uses a thicker than normal BIAB mash and a sparge, but also does so in a smaller kettle, so reducing the water quantities while keeping the grain mass the same for the mash and boil, then the addition of water at pitching for post- boil dilution is where the volume is made up.
I use 4.75kg of grain to yield anywhere between 21 and 25L of wort (depending upon the target OG and efficiency), while fermentation and packaging losses are usually 2 or 3L, so its still a greater beer yield than the kettle volume. Its a pretty nifty trick if you're limited for space, budget, equipment etc but want the usual full- sized AG batches.

That value of 1:3 is not one I'm familiar with, are you sure you're not referring to liquor to grist (L:G) ratio? That's the usual amount of water to grain for the conventional infusion mash.

 

[bluejay]

No, it is not because of efficiency bluejay, more that the method uses a thicker than normal BIAB mash and a sparge, but also does so in a smaller kettle, so reducing the water quantities while keeping the grain mass the same for the mash and boil, then the addition of water at pitching for post- boil dilution is where the volume is made up.
I use 4.75kg of grain to yield anywhere between 21 and 25L of wort (depending upon the target OG and efficiency), while fermentation and packaging losses are usually 2 or 3L, so its still a greater beer yield than the kettle volume. Its a pretty nifty trick if you're limited for space, budget, equipment etc but want the usual full- sized AG batches.

That value of 1:3 is not one I'm familiar with, are you sure you're not referring to liquor to grist (L:G) ratio? That's the usual amount of water to grain for the conventional infusion mash.

I can see how sparge improves yield, but why would a thicker bag and less water increase it?

Yeah that's I think what I mean.

 

[Nick JD]

Thanks for the thread. Seems like a very interesting and manageable technique for a beginner like myself.

One thing I don't understand though is how can 4kg of grain be enough for 20L of beer. I thought the general rule was 1kg of grain per 3 Litres of beer.

Is it because the grain is ground down so much that the efficiency is much higher?

At roughly 70% efficiency 4kg of grain mashed in any amount of water, boiled down to, or diluted to 20L will make a specific gravity of roughly 1.045. The last two numbers of the original gravity (depending on yeast used, but generally) can be thought of as the final alcohol percentage eg 4.5%. Priming sugar will up that to 4.9%.

Using the same equipment but using only 3kg of grain and making 16L of beer I can add 10 more points to my efficiency percentage - gear has its optimal range. 4kg is not optimal with this little pot. 3.2kg is.

1kg of grain to 3L of water might be what you're thinking. 6kg of grain in 20L will make a pretty BIG beer.

Give it a go - it'll make sense once it's in the fermenter, and a lot more sense once it's in your glass.

EDIT: beaten by slow typing!

 

[bluejay]

Yes I meant 1kg of grain per 3L of water. I was just told by a friend that that's the general rule of thumb for AG.

I will definitely try this method sometime when I have time

 

[flano]

Umm.. so what did the coriander add to the beer?

dunno.

Just tasted like beer.
Wouldn't bother again.

 

[flano]

sorry to bump this one again.

strike temp at 70 dgs as per nicks pics..

I have been doing it at about 76 ...the version of this I make is never as good as the first one I made which I probably did at 70.
Would this be why?

dunno why I have been doing it at 76.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

sorry to bump this one again.

strike temp at 70 dgs as per nicks pics..

I have been doing it at about 76 ...the version of this I make is never as good as the first one I made which I probably did at 70.
Would this be why?

dunno why I have been doing it at 76.

You would be producing a lot of unfermentable sugar at that temp, have you noticed that you FG hasn't been as low as you expected. If you drop it back to a strike temp of 70 that should give you a mash temp of 65 ish which IMO will give you a better balance beer, however if you are trying to make a sweeter beer that is the way to do it.

 

[Nick JD]

Strike Temperature should be calculated every time you mash. It should never bee the same, even for the same recipe unless you brew in a climate-controlled place.

Go to:
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_o..._StrikeTemp.htm

Scroll to the bottom where you'll see a calculator. Enter your numbers. It'll calculate the temperature your water needs to be (depending on its volume, and the warmth and volume of your grain) to hit the mash temperature you want.

If you want a 66C mash (62 is low and makes a thin high alc beer; 70C is high and makes a thick low alc beer), you have 14L of water and 3kg of grain that's got a temperature of 25C ... your water (strike) needs to be 69.51C.

Say you want to mash at 63C ... the Strike Temperature needs to be 66.25C.

More water, or more grain, or really cold grain in winter will affect your required strike - so use the calculator and you'll be bang on.

 

[flano]

the plot thickens..or thins...depending on the temp.

thanks again.

I will use this calulator next brew.

cheers

do I stick my thermometer into the dry grain?

 

[Nick JD]

do I stick my thermometer into the dry grain?

I've always used room temperature as grain temperature - unless you store it somewhere really warm, or cool I reckon room temp is good enough.

 

[argon]

the plot thickens..or thins...depending on the temp.

thanks again.

I will use this calulator next brew.

cheers

do I stick my thermometer into the dry grain?

Put it into your temp controlled fridge for a while (assuming you have one) at 18C or whatever... then use that figure for strike calculations. Or just measure ambient temp where your grain is... the grain should be the same

 

[flano]

thanks fella's

dumb question in hindsight.

 

[beerbrewer76543]

Thanks for the writeup Nick. I did my first AG yesterday using this method in my Donga in Karratha. I had some issues with initial temperature... It settled at 63 so I had to add boiling water to get it to 65. Better to be too low than too high I guess

The brew was an attempt at a Yorkie Bitter:

4kg Pale Ale Malt
200g Crystal 240
150g Aromatic
100g Biscuit
55g EKG @ 60
30g EKG @ 10
30g Aurora @ 0
1469 yeast

I also bought an air pump to aerate it a few times to replicate the Yorkshire square method... Not sure about how much air to give it though... Any comments Bribie?

Cheers :beer:

 

[Xarb]

Had a bit of issue with sparging all that grain when I attempted this due to my sparging vessel being way WAY too small. This caused my efficiency to be possibly the worst in the history of homebrewing! ha ha

So any future over-gravity brewers be sure that you have a decent sized sparging vessel. Oh well lesson learned.

Anyway so I was thinking of buying a second pot for my next sparge attempt but then realised I could probably use my second fermenter as a sparging vessel. It is one of those fermenters with the full sized rip-off lids (see pic) so I can't see any problem but do any of you more experienced brewers see any potential issues with using it?

 

[Bribie G]

They've been using those in the UK for the last 40 years for fermenting and also sparging - I used to do AG in a two vessel system 30 years ago with sparging and it's fine, just line it with the bag, do a batch sparge and raise the bag a tad off the bottom to avoid blocking the tap as you run off into the boiler. You'll probably need a full size BIAB bag to fit that big boy, but that will stand you in good stead if you decide to go full volume BIAB in an urn or bigger pot.

 

[Xarb]

You'll probably need a full size BIAB bag to fit that big boy, but that will stand you in good stead if you decide to go full volume BIAB in an urn or bigger pot.

Bag size! I didn't think of that, which is why I asked the experts. Cheers Bribie. :icon_cheers:

PS for any brewers looking for a coffee grinder, ALDI has them this week for $20:
http://www.aldi.com.au/au/html/offers/2827_17148.htm

 

[HeavyNova]

Still the original Sunbeam. I'm losing track now, but it's got to be close, if not over 150kg that's gone through the thing.

Where I think it'll finally kick the bucket is the lid. There are a few cracks and chips on the rim - I suspect from the occasional pebble/stone that can be in the grain.

It gets warm doing 4kg, and I make sure to wipe the dust that accumulates on the base (where the cooling vents are) each kg, but I'm as surprised as anyone that it's still going.

Good to hear! I picked this same model up a few days ago for my first shot at an AG brew this weekend. Thanks for the easy to follow guide and the inspiration Nick!