20A?

[Jase]

Hey there,

I'll start by asking you to please excuse my ignorance here.

I have been trying to talk my nieces boyfriend who is a sparky to install some 20amp circuits in my place for my new 1v electric setup.

I was reading a few posts on elements today and thought that I'd have a look at the meter board, and was shocked to discover that it seems like I already have 20amp.



Are these 20amp circuit and would I be wrong in thinking that I have four circuits? Remember the ignorance disclaimer at the start of the post.

Cheers,
Jase

 

[pimpsqueak]

There's a big difference between a 20a cb protecting a string of power outlets using 2.5mm cable and a 20a cb protecting a single 15a outlet with a larger dia cable.

Unless one of those cbs is dedicated to a 15a outlet, you will need a new circuit.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

What a relief I thought this was going to be political... something down the list after 18C...

sorry, (backs away from that one)

Best to check with any reputable certified in the trade to start with to see what is legally optional I'd think..
10 amp being standard output etc. 15 obtainable? Then its up to 3 phase? Industrial/commercial etc?
Re pimpsqueak comment: Thicker cable required.

 

[Coldspace]

You have 4 separate power circuits,( according to the mark writings) feeding points along they way. Each power point has a 10 amp socket. The cable rating for circuit can carry between 13 and 22 amps depending on installation and derating factors, your electrical installer has rated these circuits to 20 amps. So the combined load on each circuit can handle 20 amps and is a very common domestic rating for 2.5 mm cable. Some installers will derate this down to 16 amps breakers if length or type of installation warrants it.

So you can pull upto 2 x 10 amp loads on each circuit, and it will be ok. If it was installed and rated correctly.

I'd balance that sort of load over 2 circuits. Especially if other appliances are plugged in like fridges.

You can plug a lamp into one point and turn a breaker off, till you find the correct circuit, them try another point till you identify which breaker operates which points.

Looks like you got plenty of juice there to run things.

You won't be able to plug 15 amp or 20 amp plugs into the 10 amp points,

Just check that you do have 4 power circuits via plugging a lamp into your points,
As I've seen heaps of sparkies mark stove, aircon etc as just power and then you may only have 1 or 2 power circuits and the other 20 amp breakers are protecting other appliances etc.

But you either have a big house or a very keen sparky to do 4 domestic power circuits.

You have a sparky in the family, get him around unless your 1v only uses 10 amp plugs, then find which outlets are on what breaker and balance the load for 2 elements etc over 2 circuits.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

In simple terms if you turn two high wattage appliances on the same circuit at the same time you trip the breaker (blow the fuse in the old days). Eg. your 1v element = ? amp. and a fridge kicks in at the same time you trip the breaker etc.
It could all be fine. Are you tripping one of those circuit breakers?
I only trip a circuit breaker when I use my mig welder on the same circuit that also supplies a beer fridge, 2 freezers and my Aquaponics system. That's with new safety switchboard and smart meter etc.

 

[Jase]

Thanks for the awesome feedback fellas.

Coldspace, I have the stove on another 20a circuit, and the air com is on 3 phase. Great tip on the light test. I'll give that a go.

Danscraftbeer, I haven't tripped a circuit yet as I haven't ordered the elements yet.

The plan was to install 2 x 2400w elements which I realise that I can run on 2 separate 10a circuits, but was thinking of getting 2 x 3600w elements that I might be able to split over two 20a circuits or a dedicated 32a circuit.


Cheers,
Jase

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Whoa! What's the batch size may I ask? and the set up. Is this a house?
Is this for mashing? boiling?
Just thinking that's a fair bit of juice.

 

[labels]

Whoa! What's the batch size may I ask? and the set up. Is this a house?
Is this for mashing? boiling?
Just thinking that's a fair bit of juice.

Still cheaper than buying beer

 

[Jase]

I tossed up between single batch and double batch for a while, but settled on single batches as it will allow me to brew more variety, I have a 3v system that I can brew doubles on if need be.

My 1v setup is a 56 litre kettle with a 25 litre malt pipe. Was thinking of the two elements to get the mash up to boiling temps and then throttle back once the mash starts to boil.

Cheers,
Jase

 

[husky]

I put 5kw in my 20L 1V. Draws an average of 4A when ramping and holding and I let go out to a full 20A when ramping to boil after mash out. Have it set to 16A for the boil for a 14% evap rate. No such thing as too much power.

 

[Jase]

I put 5kw in my 20L 1V. Draws an average of 4A when ramping and holding and I let go out to a full 20A when ramping to boil after mash out. Have it set to 16A for the boil for a 14% evap rate. No such thing as too much power.

Do you throttle the power through a controller Husky?

 

[husky]

Yeah, using a SSR and a 4-20mA input to vary the power between 0-100%.

 

[timmi9191]

You won't be able to plug 15 amp or 20 amp plugs into the 10 amp points,

Hmmm yes you can but thats a whole different story

 

[Zorco]

Filing down earth pins again timmi9191....?. Tisk tisk

 

[Bonenose]

30 amps is one hell of a load on a domestic installation, you say you have three phase A/C therefore obviously three phase supply to your house. I would recommend looking at a dedicated three phase circuit and then if possible using three elements one per phase, this will help spread the load could possibly also get away with 1800W elements to limit demand per phase.

 

[Coldspace]

30 amps, depends on what his mains supply rating. He's got 3 phase for his Ac , he may have upwards of 50 amps per phase depending on the capacity of the mains cable or more.Plenty of juice for 2 x 15 amp separate circuits for 2 x 3600w elements.

I wouldn't run seperate 3 phase circuit and then tap off seperate single phase elements as you would need to provide one large 3 phase cable to carry the loads and provide an adequate neutral return. Then you'll need to muck around with too much wiring crap,sub board etc etc,I'd just run seperate 20 amp 2.5mm cables ( depending)with 15 amp points with rcd protection at main switchboard . Run 3, 1 off each phase and balance your house load at main switch board.
Even with the air and stove/oven and other stuff in the house sounds like you got heaps of juice unless someone's just run 6 mm three phase to your main switch board. Also will depend on factors like mains cable run lengths other installation deratings etc, you are defiantly needing a domestic sparky with max demand experience in designs when stepping into this territory now.
. I'd be getting your sparky bloke to come around, do a balanced load over 3 phases, and if 10mm or bigger mains 16 or 25 would be awesome , tap in 2 -3 seperate 15 amp circuits with 20 amp rcd protected breakers. **** load of juice for your setup, you could then just use your power points for pumps etc. this is proballly over doing it, but it's what I'd be doing if you are wanting to run 2 x 15 amp elements plus other things, possibly an 10 amp urns etc

Without seperate circuits, you will be limited to a couple of 2400 watt elements running from 2 power circuits. 10 amps on each 20 amp power circuit would be no issue unless you start plugging in kettles, wife's hair drier etc, then you'll trip the breaker.

Those combo breakers you got there are good ones , but going bigger elements, get your sparky friend to come and check your consumer supply and load ratings.
Most large modern domestic 3 phase Ac systems (20-25 kW) draw approx 9-13 amps per phase on full load, so if you got 50 amps per phase or more then you'll piss in a couple of full load 15 amp circuits as well.
As long as you get your phases balanced out .

btw, 2 x 2400 elements would be plenty to get your kettle boiling anyway, if you got 2 power circuits then you'll be fine, looks like you may have 3-4 so even better, you could run an urn and if wanting to ramp the boil up quicker do what I did and throw an over the side 10 amp immersion heater in for 15 mins, that'll ramp it up fast. Got mine for 80 bucks, saves lots of time.
For more juice, wire it up with dedicated circuits