1v biab recirc - build questions

[neo__04]

Hey all,

Building myself a 1v biab rig with recirculation to control mash temps etc.

I was going to buy a 70l pot From Ross but freight will be $60. That's $210 just to get the pot.
Not sure where else I can get hold of anything stainless cheaper so I'm going to use a 50l keg I have lying around.

Wanting to design a 1v biab setup with pid controlled element and recirculation to keep mash temps constant.

Wondering what keg setup you recommend. I have a 2200w craftbrewer element. Assume I run a false bottom with a pickup tube. But will an element fit under this? What size false bottom?

Any advice would be great

 

[Bribie G]

With most of the mash action happening in the first 20 minutes and a decent lagged system only losing one and a half degrees per hour why would you want to go all the obfustication of a high tech system? Ain't broke. :unsure: Maybe HERMS is for you.

 

[neo__04]

Hmm. Well I didn't think that was too over the top. Being 1v I figured I'd save space, And have the simplicity of biab, yet have the ability to control mash temps, step mash and recirculate. Maybe I'm wrong.

Now I'm confused lol

 

[QldKev]

Have a search on here. A couple of other threads have been raised within last 2 weeks for same thing. Also check out YouTube for my videos. I have a couple of videos showing my 1v and discussing what I have done. While I enjoy my 3v I also have fun on the 1v.

 

[neo__04]

Hey Qldkev.

I started thinking about this build based on your build and your YouTube videos. Its a bit has to see but is your 1v rig using a 50l keg?
Where abouts did u get your false bottom? Or did you make it yourself?

Thanks heaps. Had basically decided on the same design as you. Was just working out specifics to suit a keg.

Thx again

 

[QldKev]

Yep, sure is a 50L keg, it's the short fatter style. I cut the top completely off, handles and all. I didn't want the extra crap in the way. The false bottom is just an aluminum pizza tray that is a fairly close fit. I think it was a 15", but that will depend on which keg you use. It does not need to be a perfect fit as we still have a bag above it. I cut slots in it with a grinder, and then bent up some legs from some flat bar I had and pop riveted them on. I've seen a lot of people use stainless bolts for the legs.

I've got about 10L of wort in under the false bottom, so the element is in very open wort. You can also see I use an extra bottom wort return to push wort at the heating element to help reduce any chance to wort being burnt on the element, seems to work perfectly. I do protein rests without any issues. If I rebuilt the system I wouldn't change anything. One day I'll replace all the second hand fittings with some nice gear.

I tried lifting bags and also stirring back when I used a traditional BIAB setup. I also tried infusion mashing (adding hot water), but running into the kitchen with pots of water was a pain. The 1V hooked up with a temperature controller, any temperature adjustments are just push the button and walk away.

 

[Midnight Brew]

I'm with Bribie on this one, BIAB is a simple system and the temperature you would lose over the mash would be minimal. Step mashing can be achieved with BIAB, dont even have to raise the bag just apply the heat and stir. I cant comment on whether this works with an element, ive only has experience with gas. Maybe a bigger brewing system is for you.

 

[Aces High]

I would recommend a herms system rather than an all in one pot. It all pulls apart for cleaning, there is no chance of burning or scorching the wort and if you get bored with recirculating you can still easily use it as a standard biab pot.

 

[Bribie G]

The major problem with BIAB recirc systems, at the end of the day, is that if you are doing it to achieve brighter wort (not that this is a proven advantage), as soon as you hoist the bag then all your good work is undone in about ten seconds. If you are doing it to maintain exact programmable temperatures, all well and good. But BIAB is probably not the best platform to build it on.

As the OP is obviously a bit handy and techy, a Braumeister / malt pipe / pump / raspberry Pi sort of single vessel setup would achieve everything he is looking for in a compact space and give him heaps to do

Edit: what I meant by "not the best platform" was that for recirc you really need some sort of system where you can get a consistent flow through a consistent grain bed - in the case of BIAB "grainbed" isn't really in its job description, although you can probably fluke one - whereas with HERMS and Braumeister it certainly is (in the case of the BM the flow goes UP through the bed which is trapped against an upper filter. I'm quite tickled with that concept, having seen it in action).

 

[breakbeer]

I'd also recommend checking out Big Nath's 1V recirc' system, I copied his design & am very happy with it. Only thing I'm gonna change is to upgrade from a lil brown pump to a Kaixin

 

[QldKev]

As most people know I've come from a BIAB background, and have a 3V with RIMS and HERMS, and now have also build myself a 1V. In the 1v vs BIAB debate I'm not as worried about wort clarify, but I do find my 1V does produce cleaner wort than my old BIAB, but not as good as my 3V; although I do think wort clarity helps with hop aroma stability; but that's another debate.

When performing a temperature step with a pump I just like the idea I don't have to either lift the bag, or sit there stirring it. If you do a temperature step without lifting, stirring or recirculating you are asking for issues where the wort under the grain gets too hot and causing astringency in the beer. Watching a pump do the work is the easiest of the three options; and lets face it, it's not that hard to add a pump and false bottom to keep the bag away from the heat source. If I didn't want to do temperature steps, I would not worry about the pump for the BIAB.

If the user knows what they are doing any of the systems will produce decent beer, be it BIAB, 1V, Brau.., 3V. At the end of the day pick what ever system suit you. In this case the OP was interested in a 1V setup, so I put forward my knowledge of such system.

 

[QldKev]

I'd also recommend checking out Big Nath's 1V recirc' system, I copied his design & am very happy with it. Only thing I'm gonna change is to upgrade from a lil brown pump to a Kaixin

Which one? His older on, or the second setup?

 

[breakbeer]

My design was based on his first effort, with a few minor tweaks

 

[pk.sax]

A bit random, but I've wondered why we can't just buy the shorter malt pipe that braumeister sell to adapt for use in a home made braumeister. The pipe and filters etc are the fiddly bits in that setup I reckon and having that all pre-engineered would save tons of hassles and the parts are really cheap enough.

PS: don't look at me, I have a perfectly serviceable system at present that I intend to keep.

 

[brewologist]

I recently built a similar rig based on what I learnt on AHB. You can find my build on this page:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/73212-brewology-brew-rig/

I reckon the smallest pot you want to go is 70L. I can get two 21L batches out of it.
Also, a 2400w element will struggle with the size of rig you are looking to build. You will want to
put two in your pot or go for a 4800w or 5500w element. This will allow for quicker ramp
times when/if step mashing and get you to the boil quicker to.

 

[angus_grant]

yep, 2400W element only gets a solid boil on my 50L pot with a "hood" (cheap stainless bowl with bottom cut out) on the system. Without the hood it is barely disturbing the surface. This is with two camp mats wrapped around the pot and also two layers for a base.

My pot is square though (40H * 40cm diameter) so I lose a fair bit of energy due to surface area. Your keg should be higher than it is wider, so this won't be as much of a problem. But I still reckon you'd need a hood or some people float pie tins on the surface to reduce the surface area and get a stronger boil.

So 70L with 2400W element would most probably not work. Once you have 2 * 2400W elements or higher rated single element you are looking at a 15A power outlet. You could run the 2 * 2400W elements on different circuits but you would need to work out your separate circuits and run extension cords on brew days.

 

[breakbeer]

I have two 2400W Keg King elements in my 70L pot, I just run an extension lead to the bathroom when it's time to ramp to boil.

 

[atregent]

I've finished wiring up my control panel for my eBIAB Recirc setup on the weekend.

The 2200W Keg King element manages to get a nice rolling boil (not hugely vigorous) with 20-25 litres. Any more than that would be a bit of a struggle I would imagine, but since 20l is my plan, that works for me. Of course, it was only 10°C ambient temperature in the workshop when I was doing the tests.

Some pics here if you're interested: http://imgur.com/a/xYfTH

 

[lukasfab]

I have two 2400W Keg King elements in my 70L pot, I just run an extension lead to the bathroom when it's time to ramp to boil.

obviously you would do double batches? do you run both elements once boiling?
still in the process of setting up my 70l biab kettle and was going to go for something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-02953-Screw-In-Ripple-Element/dp/B0002YU2YS/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1378266296&sr=1-3&keywords=camco+element

but not sure if the boil would be to much

 

[breakbeer]

obviously you would do double batches? do you run both elements once boiling?
still in the process of setting up my 70l biab kettle and was going to go for something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-02953-Screw-In-Ripple-Element/dp/B0002YU2YS/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1378266296&sr=1-3&keywords=camco+element

but not sure if the boil would be to much

Yep, I run both elements for the boil (I also plug the 2nd one in when I'm ramping up to mash out, just to get it there quicker)

Can the element you linked to be run off a 10A circuit? I was under the impression that the maximum wattage element for a 10A circuit was around 3600kw