10 minute IPAs are good for school night brewing

[MHB]

Puss
I know people here keep insisting that the only down side to higher protein/under boiling is their misinterpretation of "Colloidal Stability" being purely about the look of the beer.

Wrong and seriously wrong at that! Just to touch on a couple of the reasons
During the boil tannins combine with protein, Tannins (polyphenols) from both malt and hops have harsh unpleasant flavours, these aren't reduced well in a short boil.
High residual protein will condense as the wort cools, this will strip hop products from the beer, reducing both bitterness and hop taste.
High protein in the ferment will impede the yeast, its called yeast coating, and has most of the negative effects attributed to under pitching.
Increased levels of high molecular weight protein will interfere with head formation and retention.
Too much protein in solution interferes with your ability to taste the beer, causing flavours to be described as muted or muddy.

I could spend a lot of time pointing to good reasons why a longer boil makes the beer better, not a lot of point really if people aren't listening.
I guess its just that I find wilful stupidity make me gag a bit, what was that old one that I heard form one of Trumps science advisors "Its good to keep an open mind - but not so open your brains fall out", been used before and paraphrased often but it still stands true.
Mark

 

[manticle]

It is worthwhile because for every detractor, there's at least one other person listening and learning.

 

[manticle]

It would seem that the all-knowing alumni of AHB that have been contributing their wisdom of late have missed the point that this thread evolved into. Whilst it started from a mistake made about 10minute IPAs it evolved pretty quickly into a thread about short boils. It isn’t saying a 10 minute boil s ok...[/size]
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Here’s an abridged version of this thread.[/size]
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PART 1[/size]
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4 years ago a relatively inexperienced AG brewer mistakenly thought a "10 Minute IPA" with all its hop additions at 10 minutes meant he only had to boil for 10 minutes.[/size]
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PART 2[/size]
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A whole bunch of helpful forum members pointed out the mistake and provided plenty of helpful and informative explanation and the OP learned a lto without being made to feel stupid or that his beer looked like swill.[/size]
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PART 3[/size]
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An enlightening discussion ensued between a number of more experienced brewers about the science and black magic of brewing in relation to the conversion of SMM to DSM that happens in the boil, various types of grain that are suited (or not) to shorter boils. This all led to lots of sharing of knowledge, discussion of what circumstances you could do a shorter than 60 min boil. General consensus was under the right circumstances a min if 30 minute boil was possible.[/size]
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There is even a very clear post in their that says something to the effect - "Contrary to the thread title - this thread is about short boils NOT 10 minute boils"[/size]
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PART 4 [/size]
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A number of brewers went off and did a few experimental brews with 30 minute boils and found that it was feasible.[/size]
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PART 5 [/size]
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The thread stayed fairly dormant for a number of years until recently. Now it seems that despite their valued wisdom and technical contribution a few experienced brewers have missed the point that this thread ISNT recommending a 10 minute boils it OK and have jumped on board peppery their technical advice with some fairly abrupt comments that some have taken as less than helpful. [/size]
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Message is fine "You need to boil for more than 10 minutes' - the delivery comes across a bit arrogant.[/size]

I think (hope) that the main point is not castigating you for your readily admitted error, but more the number of people who are simply taking away 'yay, 10 minute, yeah beer, I'm gunna' from the whole discussion without considering the wealth of info available on the benefits from properly boiling. When that's pointed out, people respond 'yeah **** you, BIAB works'.

Try a 3 hr boil on a doppelbock or wee heavy made as a smash. Fuckin' amazing. Boils rock.

 

[Mardoo]

Agreed. My butt is covered in boils.

 

[Blind Dog]

Well f*** me sideways.

An honest mistake gets turned into the holy grail of home brewers pushing the boundaries.

I'd have to agree with GP's summary, but have to disagree with the arrogance comment (well mainly). Mark made a pretty gentle and respectful request (with links to some of the best free literature there is on making better beer) to understand why a 10 minute boil isn't likely to be the best option before heading down that road. And yet still a 10 minute boil is apparently a good idea.

Sometimes I wonder why he bothers, but every time he does I'm grateful.

 

[mtb]

I think the issue lies more with comments like "And may I add, the beer looks like swill". That was completely unnecessary.

 

[Blind Dog]

Hence the (well mainly) in my post.

 

[MHB]

I think the issue lies more with comments like "And may I add, the beer looks like swill". That was completely unnecessary.

It is also an accurate description of what (admittedly worst case) is likely to be the case. Like it or not people drink with there eyes, nose and mouth, not just one of them.
Even if you don't care what your beer looks like, I'm sure your friends will notice.
Mark

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I take it you're not a fan of NEIPA?

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Puss
I know people here keep insisting that the only down side to higher protein/under boiling is their misinterpretation of "Colloidal Stability" being purely about the look of the beer.

Wrong and seriously wrong at that! Just to touch on a couple of the reasons
During the boil tannins combine with protein, Tannins (polyphenols) from both malt and hops have harsh unpleasant flavours, these aren't reduced well in a short boil. taste is subjective, this may not be an issue for some beers/people.
High residual protein will condense as the wort cools, this will strip hop products from the beer, reducing both bitterness and hop taste. this can be accounted for.
High protein in the ferment will impede the yeast, its called yeast coating, and has most of the negative effects attributed to under pitching. so pitch more yeast.
Increased levels of high molecular weight protein will interfere with head formation and retention. this may not be a concern for some brewers.
Too much protein in solution interferes with your ability to taste the beer, causing flavours to be described as muted or muddy. taste is subjective, this may not be an issue for some beers/people.
.
I could spend a lot of time pointing to good reasons why a longer boil makes the beer better, not a lot of point really if people aren't listening. people ARE listening, this is all useful information.
I guess its just that I find wilful stupidity make me gag a bit, what was that old one that I heard form one of Trumps science advisors "Its good to keep an open mind - but not so open your brains fall out", been used before and paraphrased often but it still stands true. Nobodies brain is going to fall out due to drinking ugly beer. although I wouldn't be surprised if you had an aneurysm at this rate.
Mark

Nobody is trying to refute any of the knowledge that you've shared. Comments like "wilful stupidity" aren't helpful. If someone is happy to have poorer head retention, ugly beer, and reduced shelf stability, big whoop? They will have no grounds to complain because it was a decision they made, and it only affects them.

 

[Parks]

Not to mention science and best practice don't necessarily correspond to an observable impact in the final product.

 

[MHB]

Not to mention science and best practice don't necessarily correspond to an observable impact in the final product.

Incorrect - they do, its just a question of whether or not you notice or care.

Nobody is trying to refute any of the knowledge that you've shared. Comments like "wilful stupidity" aren't helpful. If someone is happy to have poorer head retention, ugly beer, and reduced shelf stability, big whoop? They will have no grounds to complain because it was a decision they made, and it only affects them.

Actually I will stay with willfully stupid, and no I don't agree if for no other reason that one of my favourite hobbies (brewing) is often regarded as an activity undertaken by grumpy old men working on getting as pissed as possible as cheap as they can...
This is something I have spent a fair fraction of my like trying to change.

It only takes a little knowledge and care to make world class beer at home, for mine, brew the best beer you can. I pay no attention to price and just focus on making the best beer possible, it will still cost a fraction of what an equivalent commercial beer would. To me its a matter of self respect and pride, when I do something I do the best job of it that I can - no exceptions.
We clearly have a different set of goals, I wont be having an aneurism, at most a vague feeling of pity (tempered with a touch of contempt) for people who place more value on the alcohol than the quality of what they make and drink.
Mark

 

[Parks]

...its just a question of whether or not you notice...

Mark

ie, whether or not you observe it.

If you only brew for yourself why would you care if you get the results you desire?

I personally would never do a 10min boil but I often do things not "best practice" because I know what I can, and can not, get away with after a few hundred batches. It's not up to you to decide how others enjoy the hobby.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

^ this.

Belittling people does nothing to help your crusade, MHB.

 

[kaiserben]

what was that old one that I heard form one of Trumps science advisors "Its good to keep an open mind - but not so open your brains fall out", been used before and paraphrased often but it still stands true.
Mark

CSIRO's Chief Scientist (Alan Finkel) used a similar line to that dingbat and climate science denier Senator Malcolm Roberts during Senate estimates yesterday, when Roberts asked if it was important that scientists keep an open mind when examining climate data.

 

[angus_grant]

brew the best beer you can.

Or able to.

It has been mentioned a few times in this thread about young kids and being extremely time poor. That applies to me as well.

Have I done a few 30 min ipas? Yes.

Did I have expectations of it being as good a full boil ipa? No

Was I making it to get alcoholzzzz? Not my primary reason

Was I making it so I had some decent beer on tap given my time constraints? Yes

Is a 30 min ipa a shortcut? Yes.

Will I brew some more 30 min ipas despite excellent advice to the contrary? Probably.

A softly softly approach to educating and guiding is always more palatable than passing judgement from lofty horses.

 

[angus_grant]

Maybe an admin should change the title of the thread to 30 min ipas..

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Maybe an admin should change the title of the thread to 30 min ipas..

Its my thread - I hereby request admins chnage the title to...

"10 Minute IPA does not equal 10 minute boils - a four year huff and puff discussion about the merits of shorter boil times"