Yeast pitching.....FFS there is enough in pack

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yes there is.

I will be blunt.

The standard dry yeast pack and liquid ready packs have enough yeast for a successfully brew.

All this talk of having to use Mr Malty and other such crap is just that. Crap

Sure..if you are brewing more than a std batch of 22lt then.you MAY need more yeast.

It is a different story if you are using agar to provide your starter.

It is reasonably hard to underpitch due to the rate that yeast reproduces in wort.

 

[NewtownClown]

why is 22 litres a "standard batch"?

 

[Adr_0]

Both Saf/Fermentis and Wyeast have pitching guidelines on their website. Strangely... Yes, a standard pack of either is basically bang on for 90% of brews, that is, 20-25L of beer up to 1055-1060. Mind... Not blown actually.

 

[Yob]

What is a standard brew? I generally brew ~24 lt and I usually have gravities over 1050. For apa and over 1060 for aipa…

Starters for me are generally a good idea

Ed: if it's sat on the shelf and been treated badly? If it's old?

 

[mxd]

Yes there is.

I will be blunt.

The standard dry yeast pack and liquid ready packs have enough yeast for a successfully brew.

All this talk of having to use Mr Malty and other such crap is just that. Crap

Sure..if you are brewing more than a std batch of 22lt then.you MAY need more yeast.

It is a different story if you are using agar to provide your starter.

It is reasonably hard to underpitch due to the rate that yeast reproduces in wort.

each to there own, I found with liquid yeast for Iagers I need to make a starter, like yob 1.050+ ales I need/want a starter, for dry I find I don't need a starter upto 1.045 for lagers an 1.055 for ales

 

[NewtownClown]

Of, course a yeast culture will eventually grow enough during the "Log Phase" to have enough yeast cells to do the job no matter how much you underpitch (yes, it exists).
The problem with doing so is that it is during this growth phase that the "nasties" are produced - diacetyl, fusel alcohols, esters amongst others. Wort is vulnerable to infections during this phase, also. I would prefer to pitch the correct amount of yeast so no bugs can take hold and to avoid the afore mentioned nasties on a consistent basis.

 

[verysupple]

It is reasonably hard to underpitch due to the rate that yeast reproduces in wort.

The amount the yeast reproduce is one of the main determinants of yeast derived flavours in the beer. Yes, if you underpitch the yeast will multiply. But they will not be in the best health after many reproductive cycles and that will affect the beer in all sorts or ways - under-attenuation, high levels of fusels, high levels of esters etc.

Also, while it may have been packaged with ~100 billion viable cells, there is no way you pour 100 billion viable cells with high vitality into your wort.

You may think it's all crap, but new brewers don't need to learn poor practices just because you're lazy.

 

[anthonyUK]

The standard dry yeast pack and liquid ready packs have enough yeast for a successfully brew.

Yep. It is exactly that. Enough to get the job done for anyone despite thier level of skill or experience.
If however you don't want acceptable but exceptional then you will need to look further.

This is the same for water


I agree that for dried yeasts I wouldn't bother with MrMalty etc as with packet yeasts you really only have a rough estimate of how many cells you'll get.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You may think it's all crap, but new brewers don't need to learn poor practices just because you're lazy.[/quote

Dear Flame suite

I have re-used and split many a yeast.

If I need to post my methods of yeast harvesting and spitting I shall.

My Original point still stands.

There is enough in a pack/satchel for a a brew of 22.0000000001-23.000000000001 litres

Stop freaking the newbies out....unless you have some sort of commercial interest

 

[NewtownClown]

...unless you have some sort of commercial interest

Ahhhh, got it. Pitching rate is a conspiracy h34r:

 

[spryzie]

Ah, I'm beginning to understand some of these threads. I love a good shit stir myself.

So I'll add my two cents.

My LHBS sells repacked US-05 in 7g sachets and writes on them "sufficient to ferment up to 25 litres".

I've only ever made 12L batches with them.

I used 2 sachets for the 1.090 barleywine I've got in the fermenter right not which has attenuated all the way in 6 days.

 

[treefiddy]

To be fair, a fresh wyeast pack is enough to get the job done with "professional results" as stated on their website.
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=16 (note ale wort)

The Activator™ package contains a minimum of 100 billion cells in a yeast slurry.. The Activator™ is designed to directly inoculate 5 gallons of standard strength ale wort (1.034-1.060 SG) with professional pitching rates.

According to yeastcalc 5 gallons on 1.060 wort requires 209 b cells.
To pitch at the wyeast rate at 22 L you would need a maximum SG of 1.051 (208 b cells).

This is a massive simplification but it sounds fair to me.

I don't think anyone has been given advice to pitch more than 1 standard pack (11.5 g) for a standard 22 L batch.

Surely you wouldn't agree that your advice applies to lagers?

 

[TidalPete]

Although I don't always agree with Stu on some things I must agree here. :beer:
I've been brewing for a long time & have NEVER done the Mr Malty thingo.
With a normal fermentation of 22 litres single\42 litres double batch & me being a tight arse I usually build up a starter in multiples of 10 after splitting a Wyeast smack pack into 4 or 5 tubes. 1500 ml for Ales & 3000ml for Lagers is usually the go with the same volume of yeast in the tube (More or less) applying to farming of the yeast & stopping at 5 generations.

Early in the piece I used to worry & fret why I got stopped fermentations once in a while but came to realise that the under-attenuation of the wort was caused by my lack of attention to aerating properly. This is now fixed (TTBOMA) & I am a happy camper ATM.
Sometimes (Rarely) I get a tube that is reluctant to cooperate & may be infected. Ditching the starter & starting again with another tube usually works.
Dry yeast is usually spread on the surface of the wort, let soak, then aerated as per the manufacturer's instructions except for Notto which is rehydrated before pitching as per the instructions.

Just my 2 cents.

Thank you Stu! I know I'm not alone now.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

some say it is possible to overpitch

 

[TidalPete]

I do not know. At 1500ml for Ale & 3000ml for largers Lagers I'm happy with what I do.
And now back to the Broncos! :beerbang:
May their farts always smell like nectar! :lol:

 

[iralosavic]

I get where you're going with this, Stu, because it can definitely be overwhelming and offputting for noobs to have to do more than just use the yeast as it comes, but have you ever pitched a 2-3 month old single LAGER smack pack into a 1.050 pale lager wort (say a Pilsener)? You can really taste it. You'd be better off sticking with two packs of dehydrated lager yeast.

 

[manticle]

For what it's worth my simple rules of thumb:

1. If it's ale wort under 1050 and the pack is a month or two old and swells on the same day - pitch directly or into 2 L of identical wort saved from an NC brew. Pitch when active.
2. If using dry (rarely do), sprinkle straight in
3 If over 1050 or if it's a lager, I definitely make an active starter - strong beers and lagers will get up to 6-8 L from a single, whole smack pack. I no longer split.

Not theoretically best practice by any means and I recommend anyone interested in cell counts and the effect on beer gets reading (plenty of references) and possibly invest in a microscope and start cell counting.

For me, the above approach works well. All my batches are 18-22 L.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

QED TidalPete

Um.......Is my border pass still valid

 

[Adr_0]

For what it's worth my simple rules of thumb:

1. If it's ale wort under 1050 and the pack is a month or two old and swells on the same day - pitch directly or into 2 L of identical wort saved from an NC brew. Pitch when active.
2. If using dry (rarely do), sprinkle straight in
3 If over 1050 or if it's a lager, I definitely make an active starter - strong beers and lagers will get up to 6-8 L from a single, whole smack pack. I no longer split.

Not theoretically best practice by any means and I recommend anyone interested in cell counts and the effect on beer gets reading (plenty of references) and possibly invest in a microscope and start cell counting.

For me, the above approach works well. All my batches are 18-22 L.

Do you hop your starters? DME or mash?

 

[TidalPete]

QED TidalPete

Um.......Is my border pass still valid

Duca,

Shotgun is out of ammo ATM so you could possibly slip past the tick gates before 8-in-a-row becomes a statement of fact.

PS ---- Getting older & mellowing, mellowing, mellowing.