Wyeast Activation Issues

[grod5]

Don't be so bloody daft!!!

It is not a gimmick, if it doesn't swell the yeast is dead. I did not say don't pitch any yeast before it swells I said don't pitch a Wyeast smack pack before it swells. There is no problem pitching a fresh unsmacked pack if the contents have been kept in good health, but why would you do it before activation, there is no point? With a Whitelabs vial you you have no way of telling the viabillity before pitching, which is why I personally prefer wyeast.

Ross

I wish you hadn't wasted your time on a response.

daniel

 

[bradsbrew]

so if you use whitelabs yeast you never pitch, cause they dont have a gimmick to make poeple think the yeast is already firing. i cant see the problem with using an unsmacked pack if it is fresh enough.the swelling only indicates activity and the yeast is not growing at all in the packet.. next you will say if the airlock is not bubbling fermentation hasnt taken off yet. exact same principles at play.

A gimmick? Do you even know what a gimmick is? if the wyeast pack was to turn purple and an alarm sounded to say "pitch me, pitch me" that would be a gimmick.

Big difference between indicator and gimmick!

Cheers

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

BYB, You're using a 3 month old pack of liquid yeast & expecting it to take off after 8hrs - I'm afraid that's rarely going to happen, whatever brand you use.
The beauty of Wyeast smack packs is that you can get a pretty good idea of the the viability, by waiting to see how long it takes to swell.
I've posted this a dozen times or more DO NOT PITCH YOUR PACK UNTIL IT SWELLS! There is NO point in pitching earlier, as the yeast has not started firing. Leave it in it's perfectly sterile enviroment until there's action, then you'll know for sure 100% that the yeast is alive.

Cheers Ross

Mmm welll I'm caught between a rock and a hard place then. I plan my brewing around having a big healthy starter when I brew. Normally start it 5 days prior. With your comments in mind I may have to look at smacking an oldish pack another two days earlier and hoping like fook it will be ok. Mind you as I have stated earlier in my thread (I think) if the pack has not swelled like I thought it should have and I still pitch it to a starter should it be an issue? I did have an insatnce last year where a pack did not take off so I threw caution to the wind and pitched to a conical. A day and half or so later it went rank, well thats how I describe that infectious shit smell

BYB

 

[bradsbrew]

BYB if you are putting the smack pack on a small starter to build it I cant see the issue. If it doesn't fire on the starter wort its fooked and you'll soon know. I won't insult you by asking about the temp in SA.

Cheers Brad

 

[MHB]

Im going to disagree with Ross on one point; Daft was being far too polite!
The pack comes with a built in indicator take advantage of it, a couple of the many thousands that are sold every year may through age or mishandling fail to fire. I think every reputable retailer would replace a pack were that to be the case, but open it and you own it.
Its to your advantage, both in terms of yeast health and economic considerations to be patient.
I have had 2-3 year old, well stored packs swell, it may take weeks and definitely will want reculturing but you can be sure you are reculturing a pure strain.
With older (say over 3 months) think a week or more ahead, at 6 months, I would be looking at 2 weeks and you will be starting with a smaller pitch so budget some extra time in the Erlenmeyer flask too.
MHB

 

[DUANNE]

so does the pack swelling give a count of haw many viable cells there are left in the pack?or how many dead cells or mutants in the pack. that to me is a gimmick, it makes you feel better without giving you any real information other than some amount of cells are awake. if it takes a week to fire then that week in my opinion coulve been better used stepping a starter up and having a large viable population rather than a small feeble population that will need stepping up any way. but the pack is swollen so that must mean its okay to pitch into a full batch. if i use a smack pack i generally smack and give it a couple of hours to swell but if it hasnt then i put it in a starter anyway. my point was simply that if you dont wait until your pack swells, believe it or not, the world will not end.if the pack doesnt swell it doesnt mean all the yeast are dead, probably a good portion of them, but it only takes one active cell in theory to build a new culture. so if im daft to think further into it than pack swell good, pack not swell bad, ill plead guilty as charged your honour.

 

[sim]

no matter how hard i smack US-05 it never swells, but makes great beer.


sim

 

[Malted]

no matter how hard i smack US-05 it never swells, but makes great beer.
sim

Have you tried using a hammer; maybe put it under the tyre of your car and drive over it? That'd surely get it going somewhere

 

[Pennywise]

Somewhere being the operative word :lol:

Just work the pouch into the corner and smash it, they can handle a good smaking, don't worry about breaking the pack

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Jeezus - how hard is this? Let me try and sum up for the not so bright out there..

Pack swells up very fast - lots of healthy yeast... Good.
Pack swells up very slow - not much yeast, probably not very healthy... Bad

You dont wait for pack to swell - you dont have the information to know good from bad.

Waiting a week though is silly... If its not fully swelled in a day or two, that is very slow and its safe to assume "bad" and go with re-culturing as though you were going from a very small initial cell count like a slant or frozen sample. If it hasn't swelled at all in a couple of days its a bin job in my books.

You want to try and ressucitate the one or two decent cells that might be lurking around in a pack that takes a week to swell up... More power to you, but i like to use healthy not mostly dead or dying yeast in my beer instead.

 

[QldKev]

If it wasn't for a smack pack, a kid could starve <_<

 

[Malted]

If it wasn't for a smack pack, a kid could starve <_<

But don't smack any starving kids, that's bad, mmkay?

 

[sim]

kangaroos love a good smack in the pouch actually. i havent had any trouble with yeast since!

But don't smack any starving kids, that's bad, mmkay?

 

[Malted]

Pack swells up very slow - not much yeast, probably not very healthy... Bad

but i like to use healthy not mostly dead or dying yeast in my beer instead.

Jusssssstttttt becaussssssseee they'reeeeeeeeee slowwwwwwwww doesn'tttttttttttt meannnnnnnnn they'reeeeeeeee Badddddddddddd, mmmmmmkayyyyy? I resemble that remark!

Don't dead yeasties make good nutirents for the living yeasties? Mmmm cannibal beer!

 

[Nick JD]

Pack swells up very fast - lots of healthy yeast... Good.
Pack swells up very slow - not much yeast, probably not very healthy... Bad

True - but what about the strains that take ages to swell? Two from either side of the coin are 2001 (days to swell when healthy) and 3068 (am often scared it'll explode within 2 hours)?

Activation is also dependent on strain. I wouldn't chuck out 2001 because it hadn't swelled fast.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I would, always swelled quickly for me - but your point is true nonetheless, knowing how each strain works is extra information... And thats what the smack packs do, give you extra information, as opposed to none at all.

 

[sim]

Don't dead yeasties make good nutirents for the living yeasties?

as i see it, the trouble is UNdead yeasties, sick and stressed out buggers who drag their feet around and produce off-flavours. in an old or poorly handled pack there would be a mix of strong, weak, and dead yeast. The dead ones in this quantity probably wont contribute much in the way of off-flavour, the weak or sick would though, and you'll most likely stress the strong ones as well by asking more of them (comparitivley) by underpitching.

I dont think its just a dead or alive kinda thing, but even if it were the above still applies - your asking more out of less yeast, so you'd have to step-up from a smaller starter amount and with more steps to acheive a decent pitching quantity.

At the very least, dead yeast and/or nutrient can't make up for less healthy yeast. At least thats how i see it.


sim

 

[paulmclaren11]

Hi all,

Fairly new to liquid yeasts... I smacked a 2007 Pilsen Lager Yeast for a Pils I brewed today about 4 hours ago and no real signs of swelling.

It's manufacture date is 27 Nov 2012, just over 2 months old.

My brew is in the fermenter waiting for something to be pitched, should I just chuck it in or use a packed of dried yeast and leave this for another brew? Don't have time or inclination for starters.

I have hammered the pouch and confident it is broken.

Cheers.

 

[pk.sax]

Hammering ain't a guarantee. Unless you can confirm that the nutrient pouch lump can't be felt it might not have burst.

In any case, prepare a small weak dme solution and pour in the contents of the smack pack, proof it. If it works it works. Don't they recommend double pitching rate for lagers?!

 

[paulmclaren11]

Yes I know I should use more yeast, but I am pitching at 20c and leaving it until it kicks off and then reducing the temp. All I had on hand.