WYeast 3203-PC De Bom

[Engibeer]

G'day all,

Anyone else brewed with this yet? I thought I would start a discussion thread to share our experiences.

I have a flanders red in the fridge at the moment as per Zymurgy / AHA Recipe.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/beer-recipe-of-the-week-flanders-red-ale/

I wanted a bit of clarification of the instructions on the website so I sent WYeast an email asking for some assistance.

My email and the response is as per the below.

With regards to 3203-PC, is it intended for

1. the brewer to bottle the beer after a stable FG has been reached?

2. Leave in the primary vessel until a desired level of acidity has been reached? And if so, for what time?

3. Transfer to a secondary vessel and bottle after a period of time, and if so, for what time?

Hi Matt,

Here are some answers to your questions:

1. Yes, the beer can be bottled after gravity has stabilized. Be aware the Brett in the blend can continue to slowly much on complex sugars. If this is happening in the bottle, you will just have to keep an eye on the bottles.

2. You can do that too. The majority of the acidity should have been produced in the first few weeks.
3. This all depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you want to "pump up" the brett character of the beer, you may want to consider aging the beer in a secondary for a few months. You can base the amount of time by sampling the beer.

Please let me know if you have further questions.


Jess
Brewer/Microbiologist
Wyeast Laboratories, Inc

 

[tiprya]

I have a sour/funky cider in the fridge at 27 degrees cranking with this yeast.

Good to hear more time will bring out more brett character, I'm probably going to leave it another week (2 in total) at 27 then bring it to ambient for 3.5 months before bottling.

 

[Dips Me Lid]

Interesting fermentation program recommended with the periodic dosing of 02 throughout fermentation, sounds like an interesting yeast if it can produce good sours in 1-2 months as they claim.

[SIZE=1.4em]Wyeast 3203-PC De Bom Sour Blend™[/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]Beer Styles: Lambic, Geuze, Flanders Red Ale, American Sour Ale[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Profile: Wyeast’s QC Manager and World’s Tallest Microbiologist Greg Doss developed De Bom to create authentic Old- and New-World sour ale profiles but in a fraction of the time required by previous, less manly cultures. For best results, we recommend the following: no O2/aeration at beginning of fermentation; periodic dosing with O2 during fermentation to stimulate ethyl acetate production; frequent sampling to monitor development and complexity. Under optimum conditions, beers can be ready for consumption in 1-2 months.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt] [/SIZE]


[SIZE=8pt]Alc. Tolerance 10% ABV[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Flocculation variable[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Attenuation 75-85%[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Temp. Range 80-85°F (26-29°C)[/SIZE]

 

[seamad]

Trying out this yeast on a Flanders Red type grist, got a couple of questions...
Found this bit of info:


3203 De Bom:
• Keep IBU’s low (<15 IBUs)- Although the bacteria cultures have some hop resistance, we want the cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising IBU levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
• No O2 at inoculation- Once again, we want the bacteria cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising O2 levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
• Temperature (80-85⁰F)- The bacteria cultures perform better at warmer temperatures. Just like increasing IBU and O2 levels, decreasing fermentation temperatures will slow down acid production.
• Micro-aeration- A low level (not necessarily noticeable) of ethyl acetate (acetic/solvent) can increase the complexity of lambic style beers. Brettanomyces produces ethyl acetate when oxygen is available. This typically occurs slowly through the ingress of trace levels of oxygen into aging vessels. We recommend dosing small amounts of oxygen into the beer to accelerate this process with the following method:
o Monitor pH and gravity reduction in the fermenter until 80% fermentable extract has been reduced. ( (OG-G)/(OG-TGEpected))
o Add 4 ppm O2.
o Incubate 48 hours Measure gravity and pH and taste.
o Repeat aeration and testing cycle every 48 hours until desired complexity has been reached.
• Oak- This culture is designed to produce a drinkable beer in 6-8 weeks so it may be desirable to add oak during micro-aeration. Another method is to create an oak extract by boiling oak in 500-1000 ml water for 15 min. Once cooled, this can be dosed into sample volumes to determine final dosage rate for beer.



So I've no chilled 23L of 1055 wort in a 25l cube which I'll ferment in. I'm assuming there is not much O2 at present, and will flush out the cube headspace when I open it up with CO2.
My O2 bottle has a reguator in LPM, which I'll set at 1 lpm ( assume it's pretty accurate as it's a medical resus reg on a med O2 bottle ), now the bit I can't work out is how long at 1lpm to get 4ppm ( wort will be at 25C) ?
I was thinking of just hitting it for 20sec at 1lpm every 48hrs as per wyeast's advice and see where that gets me but if someone knows how to work out the chem I'm all ears.

 

[Black n Tan]

According to the Yeast book, 1 minute@1L/min gives you 8-10ppm in a 20L batch. So 20 seconds sounds about right to reach 4ppm.

 

[Engibeer]

As a follow up, my flanders red was very nice. I did not oxygenate other than shaking the fermenter a few times as I don't have the necessary equipment.
It would have benefit from additional acidity, but was very drinkable. I don't have a pH meter to measure the acidity unfortunately. I still have a couple of bottles in the cupboard so I'll save some until I get a pH meter/strips.

 

[mje1980]

If you pitch a 2nd batch into the yeast cake it'll be much more sour.

 

[Engibeer]

Yeah a made a berliner weisse and re-pitched and it was unbelievably sour. Again as above re pH.

 

[seamad]

According to the Yeast book, 1 minute@1L/min gives you 8-10ppm in a 20L batch. So 20 seconds sounds about right to reach 4ppm.

I've been meaning to add this book to my collection for awhile, thanks.

 

[seamad]

Have been drinking a Flanders red I made with this yeast for a little while now. Thought I'd do an update after seeing the recent thread uodate on the Oud Bruin, of which I have but haven't used yet. Inappropriate glass but here it is:

Grist was:
Wey Vienna 64%
CaraBelge 13%
Abbey 10%
Maize 10%
Special B 3%

These are notes from my Beersmth records:

Pitched with DeBom Monday 16/2/15
OG 1053 @ 28C
pH 5.25
Bubbled CO2 prior to pitch

Monday 23/2/15
Brix 10.5
pH 3.65

Thursday 26/2/15
Brix 8.0
pH 3.41 O2 for 20 seconds

Sunday 1/3/15
Brix 7
pH 3.39

Fri 13/3/15 ( after CC for 3 days @ 0C )
Brix 6.2 @ 1.007
pH 3.41
Force carbonated .
Keg-Oaked for 5 days with 15g French Oak chips.

Thursday 19/3/15
Poured a couple and shared with the missus who thought it was very good. Needed to warm up a bit ( keg fridge 5.5C)


So I was drinking 1 month after pitching, pretty amazing for a "sour".
Naturally it lacks the depth of a mature Flanders ( it's very lacto dominant ), but it's still very tasty. I added the oak chips after tasting after force carbing as it was a little thin, It was only a very small oak addition but has added some complexity. My keg fridge is set @ 5.5C, and that's too cold for this beer, it improves dramatically as it warms up. My missus loves Rodenbach and the Duchess and she reckons this one is pretty good. I'm hoping to get organized enough to fill the bloody octave barrel soon to make a more authentic one, but this has turned out well, especially considering the time frame. I was going to bottle this one in champers bottles, but didn't have enough bottles, The Brett character would probably develop nicely in bottle over time, adding a bit more complexity compared to kegging , but kegging is very convenient.
I double batch so I've another 25l of wort, I might try the Oud Bruin on it or just save it for the octave.

 

[lukiferj]

Wow great result Seamad. I'm the one that's pitching the Oud Bruin this weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to track down some of this as it sounds great. Our Flanders is about a year old now and tasting great but I would love to be able to knock something similar in a few months. So hard not to drink it. I will update the Oud Bruin thread when I get to taste my Flanders brown.

 

[seamad]

Wow great result Seamad. I'm the one that's pitching the Oud Bruin this weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to track down some of this as it sounds great. Our Flanders is about a year old now and tasting great but I would love to be able to knock something similar in a few months. So hard not to drink it. I will update the Oud Bruin thread when I get to taste my Flanders brown.

Cheers mate, are you doing the Flanders with Winkle ?
I'll keep an eye out for your updates on the brown. I picked up both the yeasts from craftybrewer when they were released.

 

[lukiferj]

Cheers mate, are you doing the Flanders with Winkle ?
I'll keep an eye out for your updates on the brown. I picked up both the yeasts from craftybrewer when they were released.

Yeah I am. We all have a blend keg each at the moment but the next one will be 100 barrel aged when we empty the barrel. Really happy with how it turned out. I would say in terms of sourness it's inbetween rodenbach and rodenbach grand cru. Hard to believe we made something this good but to be fair, the bugs did most of the work.