Whirlpool

[chiller]

I recently visited the US and noticed that the toilets over there whirlpool in a different direction to Australia. This promted some brain scratching as you would realise here in the southern Hemisphere our toilets whirlpool in a totally different direction.

What flavour impact will different whirlpool directions have on the end beer? will the speed of the whirlpool need to be increased if we do it in the direction of the Northern Hemisphere?

Also if you whirlpooled a different direction but don't chill the beer will that also have an impact on the flavour.

 

[bradmcm]

I recently visited the US and noticed that the toilets over there whirlpool in a different direction to Australia. This promted some brain scratching as you would realise here in the southern Hemisphere our toilets whirlpool in a totally different direction.

What flavour impact will different whirlpool directions have on the end beer? will the speed of the whirlpool need to be increased if we do it in the direction of the Northern Hemisphere?

Also if you whirlpooled a different direction but don't chill the beer will that also have an impact on the flavour.

[post="123826"][/post]​

Hi Chiller,
I checked a few books, Kunze, Briggs et. al., and an article by Tim O'Rourke in The Brewer International - and the consensus generally is that whirlpooling is done clockwise in the northern hemisphere. However breweries in South Africa, New Zealand and Australia have reported better break coagulation and wort separation when whirlpooling anti-clockwise.

I hope that helps.

Brad

 

[Borret]

My dunny doesn't wirlpool, it just flushes.




On a serious note the wirlpool is only in effect if the vessel is draining as gravity is having effect and it is rotating through 'procession'. When not draining the liquid is in effect in equalibrium still so the rotation imposed by gravitation is not present.

That's how I see it anyway. The bathwater doesn't spin till you pull the plug out. But if it did would you end up with a pile of kids and bathtoys in the middle?

If one filled their bath from the middle would it spin the opposite way to what it does when it drains?

If you wirlpool in your toilet then maybe that's your flavour problem.

Brent

 

[warrenlw63]

I recently visited the US and noticed that the toilets over there whirlpool in a different direction to Australia. This promted some brain scratching as you would realise here in the southern Hemisphere our toilets whirlpool in a totally different direction.

What flavour impact will different whirlpool directions have on the end beer?

[post="123826"][/post]​

Depends on the size of the turd. :lol:

Warren -

 

[chiller]

My dunny doesn't wirlpool, it just flushes.




On a serious note the wirlpool is only in effect if the vessel is draining as gravity is having effect and it is rotating through 'procession'. When not draining the liquid is in effect in equalibrium still so the rotation imposed by gravitation is not present.

That's how I see it anyway.

If you wirlpool in your toilet then maybe that's your flavour problem.

Brent

[post="123830"][/post]​

Sorry Borret,

Your description is very detailed and does help me get a handle on the issue.
I probably need to clarify -- I was under the mistaken assumption people would be aware that whirlpool was taking place in the kettle and not the toilet. For me, apart from the obvious health and flavour issues I have no where to connect a March pump to the dunny so it would all flush to Bolivar.

I was wondering if the different flow direction of the wort in the northern Hemisphere during whirlpooling somehow cause a different electrostatic balance on the hop and hot break thus causing a "Southern Hemisphere" flavour profile?

 

[Jye]

The direction of rotation has to do with the Coriolis effect, it is also the reason why cyclones spin it different direction in the hemispheres.

 

[Borret]

Sorry Borret,

Your description is very detailed and does help me get a handle on the issue.

Sorry I was editing the other post when you wrote. Might be clearer now?

Basically the bathwater doesn't spin till it's being emptied. It's the downward movement that makes it spin. So in your kettle the 'procession' is not happening when you are wirlpooling.

Brent

 

[Airgead]

The direction of rotation has to do with the Coriolis effect, it is also the reason why cyclones spin it different direction in the hemispheres.

[post="123834"][/post]​

[Physics geek mode on]

The coriolis effect will not affect systems smaller than cyclones. It is a tiny force that has to act on a large system to have any impact at all. Your bath/toilet/kettle are far too small for this force to make any impact at all. The whirlpool direction has more to do with eddies present in the liquid and any rotation imparted through stiring or whatever than with the coriolis force. I can make the water in the bath wirlpool the other direction just by twisting my hand the other way as I pull the plug out.

In short - whirlpool direction in kettle will have no impact at all on the end beer (unless your whirlpool direction pushes crud into your pickup tube).

[Physics geek mode off]

Cheers
Dave

 

[user 384]

Hi Chiller

I've made a quick call and I've been able to source some Nothern Hemisphere Whirlpooling pump (NHWp) at wholesale prices. There are a range of sizes to choose, but the supplier asked that I don't post the price list because he doesn't want to upset any HBS owners. If you would like the prices PM me and I'll arrange a bulk buy.

When using a NHWp, just make sure you avoid splashing so you don't spoil the beer due to HSA.

Cheers
MAH

 

[warrenlw63]

:lol: And install it with a left handed screwdriver.

Warren -

 

[Gough]

Hi Chiller

I've made a quick call and I've been able to source some Nothern Hemisphere Whirlpooling pump (NHWp) at wholesale prices. There are a range of sizes to choose, but the supplier asked that I don't post the price list because he doesn't want to upset any HBS owners. If you would like the prices PM me and I'll arrange a bulk buy.

When using a NHWp, just make sure you avoid splashing so you don't spoil the beer due to HSA.

Cheers
MAH

[post="123848"][/post]​

Are there any Occ Health and Safety issues with these pumps MAH? I wouldn't want any of my family members to be in danger were I to employ this important piece of new equipment in conjunction with my current setup...

Shawn.

 

[chiller]

Hi Chiller

I've made a quick call and I've been able to source some Nothern Hemisphere Whirlpooling pump (NHWp) at wholesale prices. There are a range of sizes to choose, but the supplier asked that I don't post the price list because he doesn't want to upset any HBS owners. If you would like the prices PM me and I'll arrange a bulk buy.

When using a NHWp, just make sure you avoid splashing so you don't spoil the beer due to HSA.

Cheers
MAH

[post="123848"][/post]​

Thanks MAH,

How many units do you need to get a bulk buy underway?

I have to admit though -- since you have mentioned HSA, which really only seems a problem on American brew forums I do wonder if it is worth going to all the trouble? You have raised a very good point though as the flow patterns in the wort could introduce too much O2 as the beer is coolling. I want to brew as authentic an American beer as possible so would consider being part of the bulk buy. Another concern I have though is the physical size of the unit. The only Nothern Hemisphere Whirlpooling pump (NHWp) I have seen took up a seperate room and that was designed just for a toilet.

This does bring me back to the earlier point as to the benifits of reverse whirlpoling and no chill brewing.

 

[warrenlw63]

I'm afraid I must decline on the bulk buy.

I'm still smarting from the recent Metric Clock fiasco. Did my dough there. h34r:

Warren -

 

[Borret]

I think the 'l' should be dropped of the end of this thread's title...

 

[DJR]

Maybe that's why they can't seem to work out that plastic fermenters are fine over there - the backwards rotation of the wort as it drains probably affects the capacitive flux entropy of the plastic fermenter.




:excl:

RDWHAHB

 

[RobW]

I'm afraid I must decline on the bulk buy.

I'm still smarting from the recent Metric Clock fiasco. Did my dough there. h34r:

Warren -

[post="123858"][/post]​

Warren, I have some as-new skyhooks you may be interested in. They're specially made for Northern hemisphere applications & each one comes with a free tube of anti-gravity grease.

 

[warrenlw63]

Rob

You're as bad as that flaming Dan Webb... Buggered if this spaghetti vine will bear any fruit. Think I've been had there too. :lol:

Warren -

 

[doglet]

I want to brew as authentic an American beer as possible ......

Maybe you should forget about adding any malt or flavour if you're making a Bud clone