Which Chiller?

[cpsmusic]

I've just started doing AG brewing. I've done 3 brews so far and all have worked well. I have a very simple setup, using an esky for mashing and doing the boil on a gas stovetop in my kitchen. At present I use 3 x 5kg bags of ice to chill my wort in a bathtub (unfortunately I don't have a sink big enough for the boil pot).

Buying the ice is a nuisance, it's expensive ($10+ for each batch), and not particularly efficient as the bath is obviously much bigger than the boil pot so there's a large amount of water in the bath that needs to be chilled. It's also a hassle having to carry the wort from the kitchen to the bath.

I'm interested in getting a chiller but I'm not sure which would be best. I'm tossing up between a copper coil, and a plate chiller. ATM, I'm leaning towards one of these:

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7050

What are the pros and cons of coil vs plate chillers?

Cheers,

Chris

 

[manticle]

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww....immersion+plate

 

[[email protected]]

Immersion chillers are great to get your wort down to about 50 but after that they slow right down and use a lot of water. Cold water goes in and comes out mildly warmer. So at first the seem fantastic, even 3m of coil will drop your wort down to 40-50 C in 10-15 mins. But there a real pain for dropping those last degrees off. Where as with youre counter current options they are constantly exposing the cold tap water to near boiling wort so they are a much more efficient way to chill your beer. I haven't gone the counter chill option before but I am currently planning on building one.

 

[cpsmusic]

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww....immersion+plate

Thanks!

I've never seen a plate chiller so I'm a bit unclear as to how it works

With the plate chiller, what other gear do I need - do I need a pump?

 

[Brad Churchill]

I made myself a copper coil immersion chiller similar to the ones you get from grain and grape.
Currently I am only brewing small batches (12-14 litres) in a 36litre pot.
Now I am on tank water so I just recirculate the water back into the tank so I don't actually waste any water.
I made the coil out of a full roll of half inch copper pipe (18 metres) to accomodate for brews up to 50 litres.
Right now it chills my 14 litres of boiling wort down to around 20C in 13 minutes and that is only using about 5 metres of the coil. The rest of it sits above my wort level spilling out the top of my pot.
I guess it depends on your situation as to which method works best for you.

Cheers

Brad

I should add that I live in Tassie and so my tank water is generally bloody cold which would really assist in dropping the temp. quickly.
So again it will depend on your own personal circumstances as to what will work best for you...

 

[proudscum]

i like immersion chiller personally as you put it in the boil for 10 mins to sterlise it and its easy to clean you are also adding a little copper to the brew from what i have read which is a bonus to feed yeast when it gets to fermentation.usually 20 -30min get my brew down to 23-24 degrees,but will be making a second coil from a ditched attempt to build a HERMS system to use in line with 3lt frozen milk cartons filled with water in a bucket to speed up the process.the other thing i like is most of the hot break/cold break and hop trub stay in the kettle.

just my 2c

 

[gava]

my 2c,

I used a immersion chiller which worked great! but since I have a dodgy back i found it a little heavy to put in and out (it was a big chiller) so im going to move towards a plate chiller.
From what i've read/heard they do the same stuff (once you've tweaked your flow rates etc) just what you prefer to use.

gav

 

[unrealeous]

I've got a plate chiller but never had much success with it - the reason being that I would shut the boil off, then start recirculating hot wort through it back into the kettle - but it would only take a few minutes before it would become clogged up with trub.

I think if I shut the boil off - waited 10 mins, whirl-pooled - waited another 10 mins, I could get good results - but then the wort stays hot another 20 odd minutes after flameout. Obviously this upsets all your hop additions.

I'm wondering if I've just been doing it wrong.

With an immersion chiller one can cool the wort immediately after flameout. The only thing I don't like about using one of these is that it always comes out super clean looking - and I know that all the oxides/copper/etc are now in the beer. This is even after cleaning it PWB, and then soaking in hot vinegar solution.

 

[kenlock]

I think if I shut the boil off - waited 10 mins, whirl-pooled - waited another 10 mins, I could get good results - but then the wort stays hot another 20 odd minutes after flameout. Obviously this upsets all your hop additions.

I'm wondering if I've just been doing it wrong.

The instructions for the 'Therminator' state "It is highly recomended that you install a filter in front of the chiller (stainless scouring pad, screen type filters, Y-strainer or similar pre-filter) to ensure particulate matter remains in the brew pot and does not plug the hoses, pump or exchanger. When boiling is finished, start a strong whirlpool with your stir paddle by stirring clockwise vigorously. Cover and let it sit for 10-15 min to settle the hops & trub in the center of the brew pot. Then begin draining and chilling wort. This will also enhance the flavor and clarity of your finished beer."

 

[WeaselEstateBrewery]

I have used a plate chiller for two years without any issues. No hop screens or filters. I do whirlpool and wait 15 minutes though. Plate chillers use less water too.

I fill my fermenter with SPC and soak the chiller in it, then empty the fermenter through a hose and through the chiller. Same with sanitiser. Have never had issues.

Have not used an immersion chiller but from my experience the plate chillers are great.

 

[unrealeous]

It is highly recomended that you install a filter in front of the chiller

Winner Winner chicken dinner.

Yeah - that's what I'm missing in my life.

 

[bear09]

If I were you I would go the immersion option but do as I do and STIR IT!

When I dunk my immersion chiller in I also dump in a big plastic spoon. When the boil ends I hit the cold water on full bore and then start stirring.

I can get 23L of wort down to 23 degrees in 15 mins - exactly. I do this every time. Im from Melbourne so the tap water is not freezing but fairly cool.

As the temp drops I slow the flow - basically you want the outgoing water to be as hot as possible - otherwise its just a waste. I used to do this in my kitchen (pre my own shed) days without an issue.

I keep the outgoing water and have measured it to be some 100 liters. This is a lot of water I know but I keep it all and use it for cleaning up, sparge and mash water for the next brew. This way hardly any of it gets wasted and I dont feel guilty.

Guilty? Why? A wise man once told me - "I dont know why everyone is panicking about the drought - seems to be plenty of water in the tap..."...

So I must admit I am a little more wasteful now that it has been raining down here for 6 months.....

Go immersion. For your setup it would be ideal. Just make sure you stir! It is amazing the termal dynamics - Start cooling at 100 degs and within 20 seconds without stirring the outgoing water is cold. Give it a little stir and BANG its boiling hot again. The water around the coil cools so fast.

I have produced excellent beers stirring while cooling. I dont know why some are so against it. Using a plate or counter flow is a hell of a lot more of a stir then an immersion chiller with a spoon.

My 200c worth

 

[browndog]

I think if I shut the boil off - waited 10 mins, whirl-pooled - waited another 10 mins, I could get good results - but then the wort stays hot another 20 odd minutes after flameout. Obviously this upsets all your hop additions.

I really don't think that is an issue worth worring about otherwise you would have instructions in recipes that brewers using plate chillers need to reduce their hop quantities by factorX to allow for additional bittering. Consider how long the the No-chillers wort is hot compared to the 10-15 mins you need to wait to let your trub settle before runnning it through the plate chiller. To the OP, IMHO plate chillers win hands down, however an immersion chiller would be much mre practical with your stove top setup

cheers

Browndog

 

[geoffd]

I use immersion chiller & agree with previous points:

1. easy to clean
2. cools my wort in about half an hour
3. stirring makes a huge difference to cooling time
4. ensure the coils reach the top of the liquid, (stretch if you have to) the guys at grain & grape did testing on the coils a few years ago (think it was Rod Patterson) & found this to have a considerable impact on cooling efficiency

No point in pouring water full bore through it, it wont improve cooling ability, just wastes water. For me the 1st runnings of hot water go back ito sink for washing up, rest gets collected for garden, but if you have a tank I'm sure you could collect it back into that.

also get a screw on fitting for your tap, pushing on the rubber garden fittings will wear out the tap arm & make it leaky

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Have bought the copper to build a whirlpool chiller

http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

Cheers

 

[WeaselEstateBrewery]

IMHO plate chillers win hands down.

+1

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

I own and use both a copper immersion chiller, and a 30 plate HE - some comments on both:

Copper chiller: lot less fuss, quicker setup, quicker clean, uses a lot more water, less efficient, slower.

Plate chiller: amazingly efficient, very quick, longer setup/breakdown, needs special care, needs some sort of pre-filter (IMO, at least). I use a stainless steel braid looped in my kettle, which along with hop flowers functions as a really good filter. never had any issues with it getting stuck/clogged.

 

[cpsmusic]

Have bought the copper to build a whirlpool chiller

http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

Cheers

Could you explain how this works? I understand the cooling water going into/out of the coil, but what's the third inlet pipe for?

 

[Florian]

I know this is not what you asked for, but seeing you're relatively new to AG and haven't mentioned it in your post there is at least a small possibility that you haven't heard of this yet, so I'll ask the question:

Have you heard of/considered no-chilling?

If you have, just ignore my post, if you haven't, do a forum search for plenty of info on it.

Florian

 

[Brad Churchill]

That extra copper pipe is for a seperate coil used to recirculate the wort and create a whirlpool.

I don't use that set up. I just stir the wort every couple of minutes which creates a whirlppol and assists in cooling.

I probably wouldn't worry about the whirlpool if I were you at this stage. It requires a pump. You could always add it in latter.

Cheers